Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Zane

My thoughts on Battalion in its current state

Recommended Posts

Introduction:

So I've been following Battalion for quite sometime now, I love what the game is trying to achieve and I like the way the Dev team has been working so far, as of now I have over 100hrs in the game if we consider the time spent playing during alpha/beta and EA, so this is not coming from someone who has just bought the game and immeditaly wants to say what has to be changed. The following are my personal opinions on the current state of the game, so you are free to not agree with me. I understand the game is in EA and a lot of stuff is not final and subject to change, some of the issues i'll be talking about may have even already been fixed internally, so just to not repeat myself again: these are my current opinions on the state of the game as it is right now, I know things will change, but it is obviously easier to change them if players tell you what they feel it's wrong with the game, after all that's why we're here. Unfortunately English is not my native language so this wall of text will most likely be filled with grammar errors and things someone else could have explained better, but enough with the introduction, let's get to the point.

 

The WWII Setting:

I already know I'm going to get downvoted for this, but I've always thought that the WWII setting is a drawback for a game like Battalion, it's obviously something which cannot be changed, but I'd still like to share my thoughts on this and what it means for the game.

Undoubtedly the fact the game was going to be set in WWII was one of the major reasons the Kickstarer campaign succeeded, this is obviously a good thing, but it comes with 2 issues:

1) Artistic Limitations: A few times reading threads on the forums or on the Battalion subreddit, I've found people complaining about the Axis uniforms and how they have some visibility issues in specific spots of the maps, this is something that the Devs will only be able to improve over time, but they'll always be stuck with uniforms Nazis used to wear because of "Authenticity", artists and 3D modellers will never have the freedom others game developers have (unless they decide to give up on authenticity and tweak the uniforms even if they don't end up looking like the real life counterparts). This is not only limited to uniforms, but also to weapons and nades (no flashbangs or stun for example).

2) "It's WWII so it has to be realistic": Now if you are talking with me and happen to unironically say those words, you'll have to listen to my 15 minutes monologue on why you're wrong, jokes aside the fact that the majority of WWII games that have come out recently were more based on realism and tactical movements has spread the idea that WWII games have to be realistic and anything which is not a "prone here for 10 minutes simulator" is considered CoD crap for kids, it is a possibility that if Battalion wasn't set during WWII it wouldn't have attracted so many uninformed players who were looking for a different type of game and ended up talking negatively about it.

 

CoD2 meets CoD4:

So let's get to the actual gameplay, since the beginning the devs have stated that the game was supposed to be a spiritual successor to some of the great fps games of the past (CoD2/4, MoHaa, E:T), I'm going to admit I've never played those games except from the CoDs, so I can't judge how much of them there is in Battalion.

Phantasy said in one of his videos, that the developers based the game on CoD2 and added promod movements on top of it and if it's true that the game definitely feels more like promod in terms of movement and overall pacing, sometime I feel like the sprinting mechanic is not at fluid as it was in Cod4 and I get the impression to be playing CoD2 with sprint.

It's kinda hard to explain both because I struggle a bit with my english skills and because it's something you have to feel to understand (and is also heavily based on personal preferences). 

I think this choice is bad for the game for 2 reasons:

CoD2 players vs CoD4 players: Without a doubt Battalion's major supporters have since the early days been people who used to play the old CoDs back in the days and were looking for a new game to play, this is evident by the long lasting debate on whether the game should or not have sprint. But I think neither of them is happy with the game's current movement, because it doesn't resemble CoD2 nor CoD4 movement, now you may say: "Zane Battalion is not supposed to be a clone of those games", more on that later.

No need to reinvent the wheel: Quite simple, there is a reason if IW back in the days made CoD2 and CoD4 as they are, with CoD4 they decided to change how the game played, improving on what they had already done, but they knew if you want to innovate you can't just change something a bit and call it a day, you have to go all the way and hope people will appreciate what you have done. In simpler terms: CoD4 plays so differently in terms of movements compared to CoD2 because most likely IW devs found out that an hybryd movements system between the 2 wouldn't have played that well. Romans used to say: "In medio stat virtus" or 'virtue stands in the middle" and if it's true that it is a good advice for life it doesn't suit game design that well.

 

To be, or not to be.... a copy:

Obviously I don't want Battalion to be just a copy of CoD2/4 I want it to be a better game, but to be better it first need to be on par with them and that's why for this whole time I've been comparing Battalion to those 2 games. If you were to ask me which fps games I like most based on movement and character control, I would without a doubt say "Quake and CoD 4", as simple as that,

it's needles to say that Quake movement doesn't fit Battalion's gameplay, but with CoD4 it's a different story, because it LOOKS and FEELS like it, but it's not as good. 

That's why I don't think trying to reproduce CoD4 movement equals to being a copy of it, on the other hand the way the game plays right now seems like a cheap copy of promod. Now you may say: "But they will for sure with time improve the movement system" and while this is true, the devs have never officially stated their plans and when asked about it, the answer was " we want Battalion to be a different game", being DIFFERENT is NOT a good thing by itself, being BETTER is, so why deliberately choose to ignore an already tested and well working movement system, just for the sake of being different?

On the the other hand there are a few things which were actually copied from CoD4 which to me don't really make any sense, an example? SMGs damage falloff, since Alpha 0.8 the thompson takes 13 bullets to kill someone at long range as you can see here: 

I don't remember how this stuff worked in promod, but apparently the falloff on bullet damage is the same as it is there. But what's the point of having the same values as promod when the game is so different in term of maps, weapons and movement? Those values definitely made sense in the promod's gameplay context, but it is not necessarily the same for Battalion, why use the same values of a game you don't want to be a copy of and then refuse to have the same movement mechanics? 

 

 

Weapon Balance:

It's not a secret weapon balance needs some tweaking, in my opinion that's what should be changed:

Schrodinger's SMGs: currently SMGs are in a weird position where they are both OP because they kill in 2 shots at close range and useless because of the damage dropoff I've just mentioned. Personally I don't like this, it reminds me of Overwatch heroes, where basically every hero has a counter and unless the skill gap between you and your counter is high the best choice is to turn away and avoid him most of the times. I think every weapon (except the shotgun) should be more or less viable based on the range, but never almost useless. Of course I don't want the thompson to be the Kar98 V2, but as it is right now even if I had a 100% accuracy It'd be almost impossible to kill a sniper or an Heavy from long range, unless he was already low on health or perhaps a very low skilled player. On the other hand you melt enemies at close range, which is not fun for them and makes the ttk very low, therefore gunfights "feel off". 

Trenchgun Nerf: The Trenchgun is also a bit OP, I think the effective range should be a tad shorter, shooting while ADS should also be more effective than hip firing

Snipers: Not much to say on them but making the ADS animation just a bit longer.

Kar98: It is almost okay, but it has be less accurate when not ADS, no scopes with Kar98 and snipers in general should be lucky shots, right now i get 2/3 of them every Unranked

 

If you have just read all of this, thank you I owe you a beer, let me know what you think :D 

Edited by Zane
  • Upvote 9
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have always felt that a "FPS" game has a sliding scale from "ARCADE MODE"............to "ABSOLUTE REALISM". Too much of one hurts the other, and opposite as well. Also, I think these games play too fast to be enjoyed. It always seems to be just running and gunning and trying to score kills, rather than play an objective, or help the team. I know what many of you will post, so this is just my opinion. Minus the bunny hopping, I think the game can improve and will improve. Its been out, what almost a month? Give it time.

 

Also, this is why many players want to have their own servers. So they can modify the play to their liking. I agree totally. Zane had many good points and I am, impressed he took so much time to write and study the game. Personally, I will look for those more "tactical" servers, without bunny hopping and too many snipers. Just my preferences, but I am sure I will find them. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Kingkat54 said:

I have always felt that a "FPS" game has a sliding scale from "ARCADE MODE"............to "ABSOLUTE REALISM". Too much of one hurts the other, and opposite as well. Also, I think these games play too fast to be enjoyed. It always seems to be just running and gunning and trying to score kills, rather than play an objective, or help the team. I know what many of you will post, so this is just my opinion. Minus the bunny hopping, I think the game can improve and will improve. Its been out, what almost a month? Give it time.

 

Also, this is why many players want to have their own servers. So they can modify the play to their liking. I agree totally. Zane had many good points and I am, impressed he took so much time to write and study the game. Personally, I will look for those more "tactical" servers, without bunny hopping and too many snipers. Just my preferences, but I am sure I will find them. 

If you want the game to feel tactical get along with 4 friends and play together or wait for ranked..

Don't come here and suggest this game is a brainless "run and gun" game just by playing public unranked servers.... I could litteraly suggest the same about CSGO unranked matches and community servers...

Just watch the blitzkrieg battle and you will see the clear difference between a professional 5vs5 match to public ones.. 

Also there is no bunny hoping in this game.. you clearly don't even know what it actually is so I will suggest you to watch this video below

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Kingkat54 said:

Minus the bunny hopping,

Please this misinformation has to stop. There is no "Bunny Hopping" in battalion 1944 in fact it is literally impossible to do bhops in battalion. What you can do in Battalion is a single strafe jump after that you are stopped dead in your tracks. Bhopping = You keep your momentum and even build more while jumping as seen in Counter Strike or Quake (although from my experience some Quake players tend to be offended if you call their "strafe jumping"  "bunny hopping") The post above me is quite a good display of what bunny hopping looks like.

2 hours ago, Zane said:

Schrodinger's SMGs: currently SMGs are in a weird position where they are both OP because they kill in 2 shots at close range and useless because of the damage dropoff I've just mentioned. Personally I don't like this, it reminds me of Overwatch heroes, where basically every hero has a counter and unless the skill gap between you and your counter is high the best choice is to turn away and avoid him most of the times. I think every weapon (except the shotgun) should be more or less viable based on the range, but never almost useless. Of course I don't want the thompson to be the Kar98 V2, but as it is right now even if I had a 100% accuracy It'd be almost impossible to kill a sniper or an Heavy from long range, unless he was already low on health or perhaps a very low skilled player. On the other hand you melt enemies at close range, which is not fun for them and makes the ttk very low, therefore gunfights "feel off".

Completely agree ttk needs to be hightened a bit on close range and lowered a bit on long range

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Zane said:

Schrodinger's SMGs: currently SMGs are in a weird position where they are both OP because they kill in 2 shots at close range and useless because of the damage dropoff I've just mentioned. Personally I don't like this, it reminds me of Overwatch heroes, where basically every hero has a counter and unless the skill gap between you and your counter is high the best choice is to turn away and avoid him most of the times. I think every weapon (except the shotgun) should be more or less viable based on the range, but never almost useless. Of course I don't want the thompson to be the Kar98 V2, but as it is right now even if I had a 100% accuracy It'd be almost impossible to kill a sniper or an Heavy from long range, unless he was already low on health or perhaps a very low skilled player. On the other hand you melt enemies at close range, which is not fun for them and makes the ttk very low, therefore gunfights "feel off". 

Trenchgun Nerf: The Treenchgun is also a bit OP, I think the effective range should be a tad shorter, shooting while ADS should also be more effective than hip firing

Snipers: Not much to say on them but making the ADS animation just a bit longer.

Kar98: It is almost okay, but it has be less accurate when not ADS, no scopes with Kar98 and snipers in general should be lucky shots, right now i get 2/3 of them every Unranked

 

If you have just read all of this, thank you I owe you a beer, let me know what you think :D 

 

The SMG at range is pants, without a doubt it's underpowered at range, yet as you say at close range it seems OP. I'm not sure it is. I think a culmination of lag correction not giving people holding corners a fair chance and bullet spread from hip shooting being phenomenal. 

Trenchgun I don't think there is much have a problem with. If anything I find it not killing when it should.

Kar98 is great as it is. Although I do find I tag people too often without a kill. This could just be client side issues rather than anything else. Again, maybe netcode related in a way.

To me the issues tend to be the lag compensation allowing SMGs a big advantage to people holding corners, hip firing on the move being exceptionally accurate and as you say SMGs having such low damage at distance (but to me close range dmg is good).

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zane you owe me a beer I read it all! :D 

Movement - I agree it is not quite fluid yet. The momentum while running around the map feels choppy and limited. Sadly even when you pick an SMG on 105fov it feels that way, choppy, limited and even a bit slow (for an SMG class). I can’t put my finger on it but sprint duration is a major thing, acceleration/deceleration values, animations or even action delays need work big time. 

Weapon balance - SMGs are indeed in a weird spot. They’re OP at close & mid range and useless at long range. It is by far the easiest gun to stomp teams with imo. You can drop people at mid range very quickly, it’s mid range damage is too high. When it comes to close range, their 2 hit kill range is way too long. Imo their 2 hit kill range and mid range damage are the two things that need changing the most. I’d like to see how they’d play out as 3 hit kills at CQB personally instead of a 2 hit kill but the above needs work for sure. And about the 13 hit required at max range, yes I also think it is too much, in COD4 it made sense because they had a Deagle, which could drop people in 3 hits across the map so they had to be useless at long ranges, but in Battalion the SMGs don’t have a cannon secondary so they don’t need such severe nerf at max range, imo they deserve to do some respectable damage at long ranges. I’d say about 8-9 hits to kill at max range would be more sensible for the SMGs in this game once their 2 hit kill range and mid range damage have been decreased. 

Trenchgun - imo it is OP, currently you can one shot people at a crazy range, it should take 2-3 hits at mid range pretty much all the time. I’m happy for it to even tag at long range and to be able to kill with a shotgun past mid range as long as it takes many hits 4+ but the current mid range damage is too strong. Also its rate of fire is a bit too fast imo just feels crazy imo 

my two cents, and don’t forget the beer 🍺 :D 

Edited by j6k4
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Zane said:

OT

Well put Sir, I agree! I think you summarize everything very well.

My personal opinion is that the game feels a little to rush-friendly as it is too. And don't get me wrong here, I'm all for the COD4 Promod pace, but it feels weird somehow :) It's fast and slow at the same time, but lack a flow I think? I'm not entirely sure though. It's hard to put a finger on, and it's most likely a combination of many things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You brought up the subject authenticity when referring to Axis uniforms. I've got a question for the devs or maybe someone else can answer this. Why are all the Axis wearing red armbands? I assume this is supposed to be the German swastika armband. These were only worn by the political part(NSDAP) and high ranking officers, not by the soldiers going into combat. 

So my question is, is this an attempt to make the Axis soldiers more visible?

Edited by Grasshopper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reason for SMG performance doesn't seem to be damage fall off it is recoil that uncontrollable.

If you were to draw comparison to promod that is where biggest difference is. Promod smg doesn't pull to one side so hard then switch to the other then goes back to center.

You can control its recoil fully. That is what allows you to put 5-6 hits in at medium range and get frag. To top it of you don't have trusty deagle at your side.

 

Another difference is that Assault rifle in promod is 3 shot to kill at any range and has very controllable recoil, it is vertical then going to the side in last few bullets. It doesn't ave head shot kill ability but it didn't need it anyway. I would personally love to have AR like this as default class because it is awesome all rounder 

 

Also I think arms/legs absorb more damage then in promod. I know this because I have loads of issue with smg/bar inconsistency at even 5m. My 2 shot to kill becomes 3 shot to kill.

I would imagine that at medium range that makes it even more useless then it should be, but this is just a theory maybe someone can do a test. At max range it probably levels to 8 damage per shot at any part of the body and that is perfectly fine just like 2 shot to kill is fine no need to lower it.  In promod if arm is overlapping chest it counts as torso hit only when there is no torso behind it counts as lower arm shot. I know that it should work exactly like that in battalion but that code was messing with headshot thing so it might not be working properly but again can't confirm.

 

 

hip fire is way more accurate in promod and gave you confidence to use it even on AR.  So in general everything was more comfortable to use . 

Movement wise i really like it but there needs loads of work to polish it you get stuck on random things, adjust maps/sprint so it flows etc, but they are on right track.

 

Right now my biggest issue is wonky net code that really brakes experience. You miss shots that should hit and you hit stuff you missed. People pop out of nowhere.

Sound is buggy as well so you get lied a lot.Animations and sounds(like jumping,walking) feel choppy and ruin flow.  So all these things really bring game down but on the bright side all of that can be fixed all we need is devs to acknowledge these issues and tell us that they are working it and my spirit would go up. 

@Grasshopper

It is for visibility because dark uniforms and I think we can't increase brightness right now.

 

 

Edited by Thor04

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Thor04 said:

Reason for SMG performance doesn't seem to be damage fall off it is recoil that uncontrollable.

If you were to draw comparison to promod that is where biggest difference is. Promod smg doesn't pull to one side so hard then switch to the other then goes back to center.

You can control its recoil fully. That is what allows you to put 5-6 hits in at medium range and get frag. To top it of you don't have trusty deagle at your side.

Also I think arms/legs absorb more damage then in promod. I know this because I have loads of issue with smg/bar inconsistency at even 5m. My 2 shot to kill becomes 3 shot to kill.

I would imagine that at medium range that makes it even more useless then it should be, but this is just a theory maybe someone can do a test. At max range it probably levels to 8 damage per shot at any part of the body and that is perfectly fine just like 2 shot to kill is fine no need to lower it. 

I agree recoil was more easily controllable in promod, but I don't think it's just that, once you learn the pattern is pretty easy to control it in Battalion , the issue is at max range you need 13 shots to kill someone, even if your gun had no recoil the bare time it takes to fire those bullets is long enough to allow the enemy to kill you if they have an a weapon which is not an SMG or a Trenchgun, also promod Ak74u had 30 bullets while the thompson has only 20

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Zane As I mentioned, yes it not only recoil but with mp40 recoil is cancer. You shouldn't be shooting smg at max range that is insane. It would be like trying to shoot defense spawn from car on crash. But get into helicopter area and you can reach almost anything. I don't see single issue with damage model especially when you consider other factors like map/movement/hitreg/netcode. 

It don't know on top of my head but I now wonder what was rate of fire on Aku. Because it was way higher that would explain a lot as well.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Thor04 said:

 

Reason for SMG performance doesn't seem to be damage fall off it is recoil that uncontrollable.

If you were to draw comparison to promod that is where biggest difference is. Promod smg doesn't pull to one side so hard then switch to the other then goes back to center.

You can control its recoil fully. That is what allows you to put 5-6 hits in at medium range and get frag. To top it of you don't have trusty deagle at your side.

 

sounds like you feel SMGs are challenging to use, which is surprising as they are “free elo” atm imo anyway. They have a recoil pattern as opposed to the circle that you get in promod after spraying a full clip, which doesn’t mean that’s a bad thing. It was requested by the community long time ago and majority are fine with it. Making them easier to use than they are now would not be a good move considering how potent they are already. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@j6k4

I don't find it hard to use I find it lacking especially in consistency. I don't have any issue dealing with smg with other classes except 

default. You can't really look at MP40 recoil and say yeah that is fine.Random recoil that you can't control can't ever be a good thing.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You mentioned the downside to the WW2 setting. I will give you the upside to a WW2 game and that is bolt action rifles. You do not get that exquisite class in a modern shooter. The variability in the play styles and weaponry that a period shooter provides is unparalleled.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, badnewz said:

You mentioned the downside to the WW2 setting. I will give you the upside to a WW2 game and that is bolt action rifles. You do not get that exquisite class in a modern shooter. The variability in the play styles and weaponry that a period shooter provides is unparalleled.

The thing is nowadays the weaponry modern armies use have a huge variety of weapons in them and while bolt action rifles are not actually used in combat they still exist, fps games based on modern warfare can even come up with weapon variants that don't actually exist since nobody will complain about it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Zane said:

The thing is nowadays the weaponry modern armies use have a huge variety of weapons in them and while bolt action rifles are not actually used in combat they still exist, fps games based on modern warfare can even come up with weapon variants that don't actually exist since nobody will complain about it. 

O you mean like rocket packs, drones, laser beams and all of that other crap that this community is tired of. I thought that was one of the main inspirations of this game was to get away from that nonsense. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, badnewz said:

O you mean like rocket packs, drones, laser beams and all of that other crap that this community is tired of. I thought that was one of the main inspirations of this game was to get away from that nonsense. 

I never said I like that stuff, I'm saying i like Ak with all his variants and other modern weapons which are just as iconic as the Kar or the tommy imo. I was talking about guns, not drones and rockets, which are a different thing.

There is also to say a lot of WW2 weapons I like, currently aren't in the game and for many of them it's because they were used by factions that are not in the game, with modern weaponry you don't get this limitation, if tomorrow Bulkhead would add the Ppsh to be used by the Axis or the Allies a lot of people would freak out, on the other side nobody cares about which weapon a faction is using in modern games that much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/14/2018 at 2:24 PM, Zane said:

 

There is also to say a lot of WW2 weapons I like, currently aren't in the game and for many of them it's because they were used by factions that are not in the game, with modern weaponry you don't get this limitation, if tomorrow Bulkhead would add the Ppsh to be used by the Axis or the Allies a lot of people would freak out, on the other side nobody cares about which weapon a faction is using in modern games that much.

More factions are being added according to the developers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×