Jump to content
STK

My thoughts on strafing (from a player and programmers perspective)

Recommended Posts

Why hello there,

 

STK here, and this is my first time posting on the forums and I'd like to start off with a little bit of background info:

 

I used to play cod4 a lot at decently high level, played cod2 and quake live a little bit, and most recently I've been playing overwatch at tier 2 level. Next to that I've been programming for about 5 years, mostly with game development in mind, and currently I'm studying "Creative Media and Game Technologies" at HKU in Utrecht, The Netherlands.

 

Back in the days of cod4 I used to play smg for our team, and I absolutely LOVED the movement in that game. The movement in cod4 was the one thing that seperated promod from other shitty FPS games, and the fact that it took thousands of hours to master its movement was an extremely competitive and fun factor. After years of playing other games and occasionally playing .wars in cod4, Battalion 1944 finally arrives, and it is truly the game I've been waiting for. I love it so far.

 

But that doesn't mean its perfect, and I mainly wanna focus on the movement in this game; strafing.

Today, phantasy uploaded the video "Battalion 1944 - Strafe Jumping Tutorial", and in it he mentioned how the strafing is fundamentally different from quake engine based games, because battalion uses unreal engine, and therefore CANNOT have the same movement. This is absolute bullshit, the game's programmers should know this, and I'm here to explain why and how it could in fact be implemented.

 

Since I've always loved strafing in games, I have done some research on the topic. There are a lot of different places on the internet where the mechanic gets described, but the most useful source of information has to come from the id software's github itself (https://github.com/id-Software). If anyone is interested in how it really works on a mathematical level, I'd be happy to explain, but I wont put that in this post just yet. When you go to the github, and more specifically to the quake 2 section, you can find a file named "pmove.c" (https://github.com/id-Software/Quake-2/blob/master/qcommon/pmove.c) this file contains all the character movement code of the engine, and its full of some great examples of code. When you scroll down to the function "PM_Accelerate", you see a function of just 15 lines long. Since movement is done by applying forces to the character in different directions, there has to be a function that limits and controls this kind of behavior. "PM_Accelerate" limits the amount of acceleration that occurs when pressing a specific directional key (WASD), and just this function alone creates the "bug" of air strafing.

 

Again, quake-like strafing is not an "engine specific bug", but in fact some wonky vector math in the air control function. This CAN be implemented in different engines, and I have even done so. The following link is a demo i created of quake-like strafing done in unity: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19RcjAQmE33GCcfS-Pm3pWNDE6HxfmEDo/view?usp=sharing

 

If the devs want help with implementing this feature, I would be honored, but please at least just look at the code, because I would KILL for real strafing in Battalion, and its frustrating to keep hearing its impossible when a noob dev like me can even implement it.

 

That's it,

 

-STK

  • Like 4
  • Upvote 16

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well this changes things :) devs plz. have a look into it! :programmers: #cod4movementwithdrawals 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the issue with the game not playing as smooth as cod4 right now is not caused by the way they have implemented strafing, but rather because of animations/player collisions still not being polished enough. 

 

  • Upvote 4
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Zane said:

I think the issue with the game not playing as smooth as cod4 right now is not caused by the way they have implemented strafing, but rather because of animations/player collisions still not being polished enough. 

 

The issues most-affecting the feel of game play right now are:

-HIT REG - Way too many noregs!!!

-SMG TTK

-Heavies being weak at range

Fix these issues and shit starts feeling proper. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, d1spatch said:

The issues most-affecting the feel of game play right now are:

-HIT REG - Way too many noregs!!!

-SMG TTK

-Heavies being weak at range

Fix these issues and shit starts feeling proper. 

While those are definitely issues that needs to be addressed (Heavies are getting buffed with tomorrow's update) I was talking more about the overall feeling of the game and how smooth it feels compated to cod4

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, d1spatch said:

The issues most-affecting the feel of game play right now are:

-HIT REG - Way too many noregs!!!

-SMG TTK

-Heavies being weak at range

Fix these issues and shit starts feeling proper. 

although you are right about the smg ttk, we’re discussing movement feel in here. heavies are getting a damage buff at range btw. in today’s update 

Edited by j6k4
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, I was implying that the movement feels fine for what they are intending here. They've stated that they don't plan on having the crazy bounce shit CoD4 had etc...

As someone who has played a lot of Tribes and Quake though, I wouldn't be opposed to trying some additional movement mechanics in the game to see how it plays.

Edited by d1spatch
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, d1spatch said:

Sorry, I was implying that the movement feels fine for what they are intending here. They've stated that they don't plan on having the crazy bounce shit CoD4 had etc...

As someone who has played a lot of Tribes and Quake though, I wouldn't be opposed to trying some additional movement mechanics in the game to see how it plays.

The bounces have nothing to do about the movement's smothness

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That would be great. I mean Battalion has strafing, which is really good in the beginning, but ofcourse it feels fairly diffrent from other games where its implemented in.

Check out https://projectrik.com/ these guys recreated all diffrent movement mecanics of quake engine and source engine games in one game. I believe its done in UE4. U can simply contact the Creators of this Game. They are really friendly and helpfull.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They had the Cod4 promod strafe and movement in alpha 0.2 or 0.3, not sure if it was perfect but it played so good. I believe they nerfed the speed as it played to quickly in their maps, like really quickly. 

Always said I was big fan of that movement. Its oké now, but the other one was better.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Zane said:

The bounces have nothing to do about the movement's smothness

Never said it did, I was pointing it out as a movement mechanic. Either way that is debatable anyway, bounces work in a similar way strafing does in allowing you smoother movement throughout the map. 

Edited by d1spatch

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, CryptiK said:

I could only laugh when they said strafe jumping took a majority of the development to implement properly.

I think they weren't talking only about the strafing mechanic itself, but everything which involves player movement

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, [DEV] BRAMMERTRON said:

To be clear, you’re quoting a YouTube video from Phan saying it’s impossible to feel the same.

Not an official statement from the dev team! 

Actually, isn't he a community manager for bulkhead? If so he might have an insight of what the devs are doing. Atleast is what he said in a video posted 7 months ago.

Edited by StreetBull

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, StreetBull said:

Actually, isn't he a community manager for bulkhead? If so he might have an insight of what the devs are doing. Atleast is what he said in a video posted 7 months ago.

Yeah he is, but he plays the game and gives feedback, I don't think he looks at the code or has programming knowledge to understand this kind of stuff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, [DEV] BRAMMERTRON said:

To be clear, you’re quoting a YouTube video from Phan saying it’s impossible to feel the same.

Not an official statement from the dev team! 

Phan getting fired? lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/10/2018 at 6:33 PM, Xtreem said:

They had the Cod4 promod strafe and movement in alpha 0.2 or 0.3, not sure if it was perfect but it played so good. I believe they nerfed the speed as it played to quickly in their maps, like really quickly. 

Always said I was big fan of that movement. Its oké now, but the other one was better.

if this is the case then it was a map issue and not a movement issue

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of my teammates reflected on how the movement felt so much better in early alpha compared to now and we couldn't figure out why. Bring back the old movement!!

 

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/9/2018 at 2:07 AM, Zane said:

I think the issue with the game not playing as smooth as cod4 right now is not caused by the way they have implemented strafing, but rather because of animations/player collisions still not being polished enough. 

 

But thats just straight up wrong. The movement is simply inferior and lacks any sort of acceleration, momentum and dynamic compared to quake based games, and this post here shows that it is indeed possible - and seemingly simple - to implement those.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/21/2018 at 10:03 PM, krieg0r said:

But thats just straight up wrong. The movement is simply inferior and lacks any sort of acceleration, momentum and dynamic compared to quake based games, and this post here shows that it is indeed possible - and seemingly simple - to implement those.

exactly, i guess we'll find out if the movement has been drastically improved in the june update..

i dont see how using a script is "plagiarism" and if so, if its a 1:1 ratio thats REALLY close to how quake feels, then why wouldn't you buy rights off the owner to use it.. its like bulkhead just realise that little kids for some reason dislike movement, even though i thought it was one of the coolest things i've ever seen when i was younger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×