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sNrklhaai

weapon balance to promote skill and not rng

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First of all it's important to challenge the sniper more. Remove all RNG when it comes to accuracy, up the damage so that the best non sniper weapons can also challenge a sniper or kar98k. They already have the advantage in being able to one shot you in the torso as well, so the least you could do to give the Bar/Mp44 players a chance is to let them kill with one headshot. The benefit of a sniper is already there, you have a zoom and while the mp44 has to aim a few pixels for a headshot you see their head enlarged with the zoom already.

The Kar98k is the only weapon everybody loves because it hits where you are aiming and you always have a chance, it is one of the best FPS weapons ever right now. Just balance the other weapons around it so you can always beat your opponent if you outskill them even if they have a sniper or a kar98k unless you are using shotgun.
 

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My opinion on heavy weapons.

Heavy Guns:

1. 3 hits should kill at any range. Now it is 4 hits.

2. Headshot for me should deal 98 dmg.

3. Bar is a really bad weapon which everyone evades from taking, too big too slow too bad aim. I don't know what devs should do to fix it, maybe find another weapon to replace it. 

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@ first 2 replies i don't rly think that the headshots is what i'm on about.

Maybe the bar is one hit kill. I think the issue is with mp44 and bar is accuracy.

Like cod 1 or cs u can use an AR and peek in and out vs a kar98 cuz all u need is one hs and u can get that from any rage esp bar.

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36 minutes ago, devR- said:

My opinion on heavy weapons.

Heavy Guns:

1. 3 hits should kill at any range. Now it is 4 hits.

2. Headshot for me should deal 98 dmg.

3. Bar is a really bad weapon which everyone evades from taking, too big too slow too bad aim. I don't know what devs should do to fix it, maybe find another weapon to replace it. 

1. So when you face SMG at close distance, even though you have a cannon in your hand (BAR), you have to lose because your firerate and damage is lower. In case you don't know, MP40/Thompson kill with two torso shots.

2. Worst thing ever.

3. BAR would be fine with 2 hits kill at close range and 3 hits kill at any other range. When it takes 4 or more it's just pointless. Same with MP44, on the other hand Thompson and MP40 should need 3 bullets in torso at close range, the same way it worked in vcod/cod2 and cod4 (ak74u).

Edited by craven.

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7 minutes ago, craven. said:

1. So when you face SMG at close distance, even though you have a cannon in your hand (BAR), you have to lose because your firerate and damage is lower. In case you don't know, MP40/Thompson kill with two torso shots.

That is only true if target you are shooting is like 1m away from you. Bullet drop of is insane plus randomness of damage can easily make it 4 bullets to kill at even 5m. I had it happen went fullauto at guy got 4 tags and in time  I reload I get another hit in but he regenerated or something and then I died. So that 2 damage to kill doesn't really come to play in normal game.

In last 10 matches I played not once did I get two shot kill.

 

That is complete bullshit.  SMG doesn't feel anything like aku.

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There's no bulletdrop in this game as it uses hitscans. Here's something to show you how wrong you are:

@[DEV] KingHoward Take a look please. If possible merge all those topics about weapon damage so we could discuss it in one place :) 

Edited by craven.
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SMG: the 2 hit kill range on the SMGs is insane, at the very least it needs nerfing to like a few meters distance or just making the SMGs a 3 hit kill up close.
Currently even the 3-4-5 hit range of the SMGs is OP, you can just straight up drop people fast at mid range which is just wrong. The damage range drop off isn't steep enough. 

Heavy: they tag a lot at distance, that's true, 3-4 hits to kill at max ranges would make more sense for the role they are suppose to play. Making the BAR a 2 hit kill gun at close range is an interesting shout, could work if it kicked around a lot and shot at a slower rate of fire. It's currently holding the upper hand over the MP44 already as it can one tap HS.

Default: yes they are OP, 3 hit kill pretty much everywhere and they can one tap HS!!! including the 2 free utilities you get with them, and they can shoot very fast too! There's no reason to pick the Heavy as Default is just superior card choice despite being free. Some changes there are needed for sure. 

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@Craven I didn't mean bullet drop I mean bullet damage drop off. There is something wonky as I said In last 10 matches not once did I get 2 shot kill with smg. I would like to see video on how does that happen so much. bar is loads of times 4-5 bullets to kill close range. So what is going on here ? There is just too much inconsistency.  Does arm counts as torso ? How much damage to legs ? Can you do video about that ?

I'm clearly  missing something here.

Yeah it would be nice to have single thread.

 

 

 

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Well with arm/leg shots the damage is significantly lower, impossible to get exact numbers (devs can share them), but it feels like arm and leg shots give 50% of torso damage.

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I really think some of the perfect balanced gameplay was back during the original Medal of Honor.    Right now if almost feels like any weapon other than a pistol can instagib you.  It shouldn't feel that way. 

If I remember correctly, in the original MoH, it was something like this:

SMG's took 5 to 7 hits to kill depending on range.
Assault Rifles took 3 to 5 hits to kill depending on range.
Bolt Action rifles / snipers can 1 shot from chest up, any range.
Shotguns should be point-blank only one shot kills.   Distance on these is far too long for a one shot.

Also, something I've ALWAYS wanted to see in an FPS that helps promote skill over luck.   "Shots from the hip cannot cause headshot damage"   Meaning no random spray and pray headshots.  You have to be ADS for a headshot to count, otherwise a random hip headshots acts like just a body hit. 

 

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There was no health regeneration in MOHAA if I'm correct, same in vCOD. Only in COD2 certain weapons have become so strong due to health regeneration :) 

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14 minutes ago, Division said:

I really think some of the perfect balanced gameplay was back during the original Medal of Honor.    Right now if almost feels like any weapon other than a pistol can instagib you.  It shouldn't feel that way. 

If I remember correctly, in the original MoH, it was something like this:

SMG's took 5 to 7 hits to kill depending on range.
Assault Rifles took 3 to 5 hits to kill depending on range.
Bolt Action rifles / snipers can 1 shot from chest up, any range.
Shotguns should be point-blank only one shot kills.   Distance on these is far too long for a one shot.

Also, something I've ALWAYS wanted to see in an FPS that helps promote skill over luck.   "Shots from the hip cannot cause headshot damage"   Meaning no random spray and pray headshots.  You have to be ADS for a headshot to count, otherwise a random hip headshots acts like just a body hit. 

 

Then why was promod so popular in which all weapons are strong and had ability to challenge everything if played right. Are you going to say it took no skill ? 

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Didn't play much promod.  Played tournaments in MOHAA, CoD1, CoD2, then stopped with competitive.

Basically saying, that if weapons are properly balanced, you don't need "promod", you don't need "standard and hardcore" modes, you don't need to mod anything or cater to anyone.

5 minutes ago, Thor04 said:

Then why was promod so popular in which all weapons are strong and had ability to challenge everything if played right.

Generally, that's called balance, seems we're talking the same thing more or less.  But it doesn't mean all weapons should be strong...that's just hardcore mode...and also assumes everyone has super accurate aim and can just use a Kar98 all day.   I love my Kar98, but not everyone does.

8 minutes ago, Thor04 said:

Are you going to say it took no skill ? 

Are you going to attack me for no reason and assume I think that way?  Or is skill a social construct to you?

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I'm not saying SMG should be able to challenge bolt action at long range. Well you insinuated that it takes away from skill which is just not true that is why I ask. 

 

If weapon is not powerful then why would you put your self at disadvantage and use it ?

 

 

 

 

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That video just shows how ridiculous SMGs are.... Here's what I suggest (and you guys can chime in as well):
 

  • Make all automatic weapons (this excludes Rifleman, Operator, and Marksman classes) 3 shot kill close range. SMGs will still have advantage purely based on faster fire rate, faster movement speed, and hipfire accuracy.
    • This will help people fight back against an SMG at close range (in the event an SMG player misses or cannot control recoil), but still reward SMG players if they out-position and out-aims another person.
  • Slightly decrease fire rate on Heavy weapons but keep their damage values.
  • Decrease amount of body showing when leaning.
    • Part of the reason jumping everywhere is most efficient is because its not risky. In COD4, leaning an angle was a way to counter SMG's fast jump hipfiring mechanic. If lean is smaller, it'll be harder to kill someone who is leaning, which means the jumper is more out of position. Currently, if you're leaning a corner, you're punished by someone mashing their jump key.

^^ This right here will slow down the game a tiny bit, but make for more balanced feeling gunfights. And don't say I suggested this because I'm tired of getting dumped on by SMGs..... I'm an SMG player ;)

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Generally a good way to balance weapons is to pick one as a standard candle.

So take the Kar98, measure the time it takes from the moment the gun fires, until the time the next shot is ready.

Adjust damage on other weapons based off that one shot.   So lets say by the time the 2nd shot in the Kar98 is ready, an SMG can fire 7 bullets, then adjust accordingly.   Take into effect range, recoil, general playstyle for the set weapon, etc.   So a possible good point for the SMG to kill would maybe be 5 to 7 shots.  (not including headshots)

Just a general example. 

I also factor in "taking cover".  What I mean by that.....does the player getting shot at have time to take cover?  Hard to explain this one, but old school games if you were getting shot, depending how quick you react, you could dive for cover.   Here there is really no time for that, most weapons feel like "instagib" once shot at. 

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