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GrayMatter

Rifleman balancing

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Currently the Allies have the M1 Garand, and the Axis have the Kar98k without a scope for the Rifleman class. 

Breaking this down:

Kar98k:

-1 shot to the torso/head = kill

-Has magazine ergo can be reloaded at any time

M1 Garand:

-2 shots to the torso = kill

-1 shot to the head = kill

-Must empty clip to reload

 

Where this stand the Kar98k can only be equally matched with the garand if you land a headshot. This is a clear balancing issue. It requires the allies to either A: be more skilled than their opponent, or B: use the springfield to contest.

 

The Kar98k is also easier to use than the Springfield unless you are fighting at a serious distance. At the very least it is more versatile. You can take long, medium, and close range engagements with an advantage on almost any Allied weapon so long as you have the aim. 

 

I understand the M1 Garand being on the Allied side in terms of immersion, but in terms of balancing it is currently sitting in the wrong placement. My suggestion would be to add a scopeless Springfield in place of the Garand for the Rifleman. 

 

I am very open to other balancing suggestions, but believe that this is an issue that has to be looked at for both casual and ranked purposes. 

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I think garand can be balanced out to be on par with kar. Right now I feel like garand recoil animation and recoil it self doesn't give enough confidence.

At times I have no clue where my bullets go same issue exists with default class except it is even more apparent.

I always felt that default class should feel like garand in medium to close range  engagements but be 3 shot at long.

 

What I would like to see is option for rifleman to chose between garand and bolt action, because it does have its pros and I think we all would hate to lose it.

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I completely agree with the ability to choose between the two.  I would like to think that will be an option for all classes eventually. That being said where it stands the Garand is completely outclassed by the Kar, and would be even with better recoil. I think that is because these guns honestly don't really belong in the same class. 

I personally disagree with the Garand having the ability to ever balance with the Kar. For them to be balanced they need to be even on the scales on both ends of the spectrum, in their entirety. 

For example: Assuming I have better recoil for the Garand, and I see an enemy and he sees me at the exact same moment. Taking ping out of the equation, I can hit my mouse at the exact same time as the other player as he does, hit him in the exact same place as he does. I will die before I get the second shot off and he will live. This wouldn't be an issue if we were separate classes, but being the same class that means the Garand is supposed to be the answer to the Kar. 

The only time the Garand, even with better recoil would be at an advantage is if your opponent whiffs/hits my extremity with his first shot. Relying on my enemy player to play worse than me isn't balance. That player will retain an advantage on me mechanically at all times.

 

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As I said garand has its pros that kar doesn't. Right now even wonky netcode doesn't help it and it is in favor of kar.

 

Garand has ability to put down multiple opponents in time it takes kar to fire and reload. It is also more versatile in case you get surprised and it allows you 

to go places in which you wouldn't even dare with bolt action. I feel like there is issue with semi automatic weapons loads of times I put my shoots on dudes but no joy.  

So I don't mind that I will die sometimes to bolt action that is just the nature weapon but same goes for bolt action when faced with superior fire power that garand has.

 

Garand should be pure joy to use but it isn't.

 

There is tons of things that can be done to garand to buff it like increasing hip fire accuracy even further etc etc

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The problem here is that if you hit someone it hardly bothers them and they just kill you. Now if landing first hit with Garand was throwing off someone's aim all of sudden you have balanced situation - if he hits first he obviously kills you, but if you hit him first he has no accuracy and either has to (VERY QUICKLY) withdraw or dies from second hit from an already ridiculously fast Garand. In current scenario Kar will always win given equal aiming skills and reaction time.

 

In the end they will have to introduce accuracy penalties in one way or another so better make peace with it to avoid disappointment...

Edited by Marrond
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The the Kar98 and M1 Garand are pretty much balanced right now, and note that I say balanced not equally performing/good. When balancing weapons you have to take into account the maps and gamemode too.
I would also suggest going into the firing range to compare how fast you take down 4 targets with each weapon. The m1 garand should be able to do it a lot faster even if you put 2 rounds into each target.

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I'm all for allowing to choose between the M1 Garand and Spriengfield unscoped. There are moments when you wish to have Garand instead of Kar and there are moments when you wish you had Kar instead of Garand(mostly the 2nd scenario tho') but I'd say it's mostly based on a map you're playing. For exampe on Derailed I'd rather have a Garand but on Outpost I'd love to have unscoped Springfield.

Don't forget it's such an iconic weapon that we can't just simply take it out and it does have QUALITY ping on reload.

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6 hours ago, DK. said:

The the Kar98 and M1 Garand are pretty much balanced right now, and note that I say balanced not equally performing/good. When balancing weapons you have to take into account the maps and gamemode too.
I would also suggest going into the firing range to compare how fast you take down 4 targets with each weapon. The m1 garand should be able to do it a lot faster even if you put 2 rounds into each target.

Thats good, but when are you going to need to take down 4 in a very short period of time when its 5v5 in ranked?

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I'm actually loving the Garand and I've been using the Gewehr on the German side as a poorer substitute because I like it so much. 

It shoots as fast as you can click and it's completely accurate.  I haven't done any maths but on initial impressions I feel like its time-to-kill on fluid firing is equal/faster than the auto weapons while also being more forgiving than the Kar in an engagement.  

I think the Kar just needs to be a bit less forgiving if you hit limbs.   

I'm picking up Garand kills pre-firing a peaking rifleman/sniper and landing shots before they've even fully unpeaked (effectively suppression fire) which Kar riflemen can't do at all. 

Edited by Varza

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On 2/7/2018 at 3:11 AM, Archit3kt said:

Thats good, but when are you going to need to take down 4 in a very short period of time when its 5v5 in ranked?

4 players, not too often. But I definitely think going up against 3 players will happen more.

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