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Rob

Historical accuracy won't be obtained BUT.... how close can we get it?

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1)  Weapon accuracy is my biggest pet peeve in FPS's.  No games seem to get this correct.  The modern era of warfare, which includes WWII, was fought primarily in fixed or hastily made fighting positions.  It was always highly recommended to rest your weapon against some static object. ie. sandbags, window sill, appropriate terrain, etc. in order to achieve optimum accuracy.  Not utilizing this technique resulted in lower accuracy.  In addition, sprinting will in fact significantly lower the chances of any soldier accurately shooting his weapon.  (It is annoying when games simultaneously allow for sprinting, fast target acquisition and superb accuracy from a range that is not properly represented by the weapon being fired).

2)  Appropriate range of weapons is done well sometimes.  WWII has essentially 4 weapon types: Pistols, Sub-Machine guns(shoulder fired machine guns), Rifles, and Machine Guns.  I put these 4 weapon types in order from least accurate to most accurate.  We can divide this list of 4 weapon types into 2 categories.  Semi-automatic and Automatic.  In most of the games I play, I generally can't distinguish much of a difference in accuracy/range between a semi-auto weapon and a full auto weapon.  A sub-machine gun will be very inaccurate when fired from the shoulder unless the weapon is fired semi-automatically.  This would encourage the gamer to use finger/trigger dexterity.  For example, the player could hold down the trigger for full auto while losing a great amount of accuracy -OR- the player could take "pop" shots (one quick trigger pull to shoot one round in order to maximize accuracy of the weapon).  This will come in very useful for players/teams when they need to clear buildings, clear bunkers,(close range) or shoot down long passageways or open fields.(long range)

If a weapon was not rested against a static object, there were generally 4 firing positions: standing, kneeling, sitting, prone.  Also, in order from least accurate to most accurate.

If you were wondering, Machine guns are the most accurate and deadly weapons because they are mounted weapons.  Machine guns are mounted on a bipod or a tripod.  The tripod would yield the most accuracy.  They are very lethal because of the extremely fast rate of fire too.  Machine guns are never fired from the hip or from the shoulder.  That is something you see in movies or read about in comic books.

3)  Weapon Upgrades were almost unknown in WWII.  Reflex scopes, red dot sights, double mag capacity, etc.  If we want to stick with the theme of historical accuracy, I would advise in keeping them out of the game altogether.  What exhibits more skill than shooting down the iron sights?

4)  Axis vs Allies is a theme that I would love to see built more toward history.  What I mean is that the Axis should fight the Allies with their respective weapons and vice versa.  If you look at each nation's small arms lists of the time period, you do get a similar weapon for each.  Here's what I mean...

Weapon type                 German                               U.S.

Pistol                                Luger                                  Colt

Rifle(bolt action)            Kar98                                 Springfield '03

Rifle(semi)                     Gewehr '43                         M1 Garand

SMG                                MP40                                   Thompson

"assault rifle"                 STG '44                                 B.A.R. (usually had a bipod attached)  John Browning knew his craft ;)          

MG                                  MG42                                    .30 Cal       Both were usually tripod mounted.

Now there are some subtle differences in all of these weapons but, the primary purpose for each weapon type was the same.  This is just a brief example of weapons.  I could go on much further but I want to be as brief as I can.  Feel free to contact me.  I love talking WWII.

--Rob

 

 

Edited by Rob

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14 hours ago, Rob said:

1)  Weapon accuracy is my biggest pet peeve in FPS's.  No games seem to get this correct.  The modern era of warfare, which includes WWII, was fought primarily in fixed or hastily made fighting positions.  It was always highly recommended to rest your weapon against some static object. ie. sandbags, window sill, appropriate terrain, etc. in order to achieve optimum accuracy.  Not utilizing this technique resulted in lower accuracy.  In addition, sprinting will in fact significantly lower the chances of any soldier accurately shooting his weapon.  (It is annoying when games simultaneously allow for sprinting, fast target acquisition and superb accuracy from a range that is not properly represented by the weapon being fired).

2)  Appropriate range of weapons is done well sometimes.  WWII has essentially 4 weapon types: Pistols, Sub-Machine guns(shoulder fired machine guns), Rifles, and Machine Guns.  I put these 4 weapon types in order from least accurate to most accurate.  We can divide this list of 4 weapon types into 2 categories.  Semi-automatic and Automatic.  In most of the games I play, I generally can't distinguish much of a difference in accuracy/range between a semi-auto weapon and a full auto weapon.  A sub-machine gun will be very inaccurate when fired from the shoulder unless the weapon is fired semi-automatically.  This would encourage the gamer to use finger/trigger dexterity.  For example, the player could hold down the trigger for full auto while losing a great amount of accuracy -OR- the player could take "pop" shots (one quick trigger pull to shoot one round in order to maximize accuracy of the weapon).  This will come in very useful for players/teams when they need to clear buildings, clear bunkers,(close range) or shoot down long passageways or open fields.(long range)

If a weapon was not rested against a static object, there were generally 4 firing positions: standing, kneeling, sitting, prone.  Also, in order from least accurate to most accurate.

If you were wondering, Machine guns are the most accurate and deadly weapons because they are mounted weapons.  Machine guns are mounted on a bipod or a tripod.  The tripod would yield the most accuracy.  They are very lethal because of the extremely fast rate of fire too.  Machine guns are never fired from the hip or from the shoulder.  That is something you see in movies or read about in comic books.

3)  Weapon Upgrades were almost unknown in WWII.  Reflex scopes, red dot sights, double mag capacity, etc.  If we want to stick with the theme of historical accuracy, I would advise in keeping them out of the game altogether.  What exhibits more skill than shooting down the iron sights?

4)  Axis vs Allies is a theme that I would love to see built more toward history.  What I mean is that the Axis should fight the Allies with their respective weapons and vice versa.  If you look at each nation's small arms lists of the time period, you do get a similar weapon for each.  Here's what I mean...

Weapon type                 German                               U.S.

Pistol                                Luger                                  Colt

Rifle(bolt action)            Kar98                                 Springfield '03

Rifle(semi)                     Gewehr '43                         M1 Garand

SMG                                MP40                                   Thompson

"assault rifle"                 STG '44                                 B.A.R. (usually had a bipod attached)  John Browning knew his craft ;)          

MG                                  MG42                                    .30 Cal       Both were usually tripod mounted.

Now there are some subtle differences in all of these weapons but, the primary purpose for each weapon type was the same.  This is just a brief example of weapons.  I could go on much further but I want to be as brief as I can.  Feel free to contact me.  I love talking WWII.

--Rob

 

 

The game don't aim for historical accuracy. They want to make game well balanced with great gameplay and old-school game mechanics. Of course fair play not pay2win. :)  

1-2. Weapon accuracy and firing range will not be based on the true historic facts. Weapon damage will be inspired by promod(cod4) and cod2 but it will be balanced during early access feedback. Weapon range will be defined by map design IMO. 

3. Weapon upgrades will not be included in the game.

4. It seems like every team will be allowed to fight with its own weapon like it was back then in cod2. So yes it wil be historical accurate or at least historically inspired :) 

If you searching for historically accurate game try to check Hell let loose  or similar: Squad, Day of Infamy, Insurgency, Red orchestra or Rising storm, maybe Arma3

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Any thoughts on sprint, shoot, sprint, shoot, sprint, shoot without any negative affect on accuracy?  I think there should be a considerable loss of accuracy if one were to do that.

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It's not completely necessary to remove them.  It was a part of history.  Allies fought and defeated the axis and everything that represented them.  Millions have died in an attempt to eliminate Nazi oppression.  If a swastika hurts your feelings, you might be too soft.

back to gameplay...

Will there be gamertags attached to all players during online play?  I hope not.  It makes it very easy to spot.  CoD WWII has that and it sucks.

 

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10 hours ago, Rob said:

Will there be gamertags attached to all players during online play?  I hope not.  It makes it very easy to spot.  CoD WWII has that and it sucks.

That's the part of UI which influence the gameplay of course... IMO gamertags will be only above your allies' heads if they will be close to you and visible ... maybe above enemy heads too but gamertag could appears ONLY when you will be aiming directly at enemy... I believe gamerstag behavior could change during EA :)

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I have a hard time believing that there will be "gamertags" above enemy players. For allies, sure but enemies, nah, I highly doubt that. That will most likely only be shown when actually get killed by an enemy player.

I'm only speculating though.

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1 hour ago, chippy said:

I have a hard time believing that there will be "gamertags" above enemy players. For allies, sure but enemies, nah, I highly doubt that. That will most likely only be shown when actually get killed by an enemy player.

In cod 4 gamertags was similar or the same as all cod has.. but in promod if i remember correctly if you were aiming at visible enemy gamertag appears.

IMO enemy gamertag should be hidden all the time in battalion... there is no reason why you should care about player's name until you kill him or he killed you. If the gamertag will be ONLY above your allies' head ...it will be great way to distinguish teammates and enemies by UI. (of course they have different uniforms but it will feel less hardcore you know ;) )

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I like the sound of that.

I had another idea for enhanced realism.  A soldier (as it actually is) would fire all rounds in the magazine before inserting another magazine into the weapon.  most games allow for reloading a mag that has half capacity while simultaneously saving the extra ammo in the magazine all in a brief moment.  Saving the unspent rounds in a magazine is completely possible, but it would cost the soldier a lot more time in order to "save" the ammo in the unspent magazine.  In reality, the soldier would have to manually insert each individual round into the magazine back up to full capacity. -OR- drop the magazine altogether/save it for later.

To me, it seems like this method cheats the gamer out of a genuine sense of modern combat.  Also, by instituting this idea, it adds another level of strategic importance: When/when not to fire and also ammunition awareness.

Any thoughts?

While it's on my mind, will there be the "X" indicating a player scoring a hit on a target?  That's kinda.... eh...

Not having it adds more realism.  Not all times in combat does a soldier know that he hit his target.  Especially if a grenade is thrown into an area that is out of sight.

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2 hours ago, Rob said:

While it's on my mind, will there be the "X" indicating a player scoring a hit on a target?  That's kinda.... eh...

Not having it adds more realism.

Rob, I have to say you that the game concept and core gameplay mechanics are already discussed and the devs are working on it and polishing right now... The direction of the game was announced after finishing kickstarter campaign. Battalion isn't aiming for be a realistic wwII shooter. Devs are aiming for great and balanced gameplay with responsive movement like old school game has. Inspired by cod2/4, moh, et, quake .... I'll have to disappoint you about the historical authenticity. If you really want hardcore wwII game - go and check Hell let loose :)BUT I believe the game will be well balanced and optimized and it will be definitely fun to play ;) 

About the "X" indicator, you mean hitmarker ... It is already implemented in the game. If you want to check latest public video showing bat44's stage of developement, go check IT out (uploaded on August 17th)

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Less realism? Boooooooooo.  lol

hey guys, it's gonna be a great game and I really am looking forward to it.  Just wanted to share my thoughts is all.  Looking forward to Battalion '44!

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however...

I really want to see accurate uniforms.  A lot of WWII games get this wrong for whatever reason.

The most common mistake is Germans are gray and Americans are green.  That is wrong. 

U.S. Infantry have sand/khaki colored coats and brown/olive colored trousers.

U.S. Airborne have both coat and trousers as khaki colored.

--Americans did not wear green during WWII--

German infantry wore a greyish-greenish uniform on both the coat and pants.  They called the color "feldgrau" or "fieldgray". (this was late war period)  

During the early war period, the Germans wore gray trousers with a greenish/grayish coat.

German Airborne had a variety of colors.  Most were some sort of camouflage pattern.  If some didn't have cammo, then they wore fieldgray.

 

 

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No one wants to see accurate uniforms in a competitive game... sorry to burst your bubble.

The game is about competition, we need distinctive colors so they are not mistaken with terrain and allies. I might be wrong, but I cant see that happening.

 

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I suppose the devs might as well do things right, considering that they have to make the models and such anyway, but I doubt that many people care about historical accuracy in a competetive FPS shooter. If there was a serious SP campaign then sure I'd care, but like this, no. 

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Most realistic aspects will just make the game not so much fun to play in a competitive way.

I would leave realism to either mod created by community or to completely different game.

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6 minutes ago, DarkMortyr said:

Most realistic aspects will just make the game not so much fun to play in a competitive way.

I would leave realism to either mod created by community or to completely different game.

You are right at this point... IMO modding community should create funny mods and maps ... smth like zombie mod, demolition mod or sabotage mod from cod4. 

I don't know why somebody want to make realistic and history accurate gamemode in bat44 with new weapon models, player models and larger maps, maybe vehicles... then everything texture and animate. It doesnt't make much sens to make completely "new game"... Now a days you can choose game like this which aiming for authenticity :)

I hope modding community brings us some old cod2/4 maps in battalion theme :)

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