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1 shot kill rifles  

92 members have voted

  1. 1. 1 shot kill rifles or 1 headshot kill/2 body shots

    • 1 shot kill
      58
    • 1 headshot kill/2 body shots kill
      35


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Dark    52

I personaly think 1 shot kills (except headshots) should Be for a hardcore mode. 2 shot kills regular mode. Depends what weapon of course. Idk why but in COD4 i had the feeling Running and jumping arround with smg was verry smooth. This made it very balanced towards bigger one shot kill weapons on upper body parts or weapons such as lmgs and the famous AK-47. 

It was very quick pulled after Running and very few recoil. That's why they MP5 was one of my favorites back then.

4 minutes ago, RevoluT. said:

This is impossible with a bolt action... with 3-4 shots a SMG will kill at medium range, by the time a bolt action rifle shoots 2 times the smg will have fired half or more of its magazine.

We also have to keep the range in mind. A bolt action on close range should do pretty much everthing one shot kill except the bottom leggs and feet maybe.

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RevoluT.    15

This is not a modern war game.

Bolt action rifles(kar98k) = 1 hit kill 

Semi-auto rifles(m1 garand) = 2 hits kill at any range

SMGs = 3 hits at medium/close range -> 4-6 for long range

Heavy automated guns = 3 hits at any range

Edited by RevoluT.

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Dark    52
1 minute ago, RevoluT. said:

This is not a modern war game.

Bolt action rifles(kar98k) = 1 hit kill 

Semi-auto rifles(m1 garand) = 2 hits kill at any range

SMGs = 3 hits at medium/close range -> 4-6 for long range

Heavy automated guns = 3 hits at any range

Seems fair ? but smgs just don't feel smooth enough to me. Idk why, but maybe the time after Running till you can shoot again should Be shorter, or maybe the size of when you zoom in with them. Idk exactly where. But at this moment i would never choose An smg above the kar or m1

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RevoluT.    15
4 minutes ago, Dark said:

Seems fair ? but smgs just don't feel smooth enough to me. Idk why, but maybe the time after Running till you can shoot again should Be shorter, or maybe the size of when you zoom in with them. Idk exactly where. But at this moment i would never choose An smg above the kar or m1

Unfortunately I dont have the game yet to see how it is at the moment. But I think the COD2 balance was near perfect, every gun had its purpose realistic or not.

@Edit
If you make the M1 be like it was in COD2, you need to practice in order to get very fast rate of fire, otherwise the weapon was kinda slow.

Edited by RevoluT.

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jcuz    105

This thread makes no sense, why should a bolt action rifle have the same damage values as a semi automatic(M1 Garand)?
I'm fairly sure it's been hinted that MP44/BAR will be 1 shot headshot too, why would anybody ever use the kar98k if it didn't have higher damage?

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RevoluT.    15
3 minutes ago, jcuz said:

This thread makes no sense, why should a bolt action rifle have the same damage values as a semi automatic(M1 Garand)?
I'm fairly sure it's been hinted that MP44/BAR will be 1 shot headshot too, why would anybody ever use the kar98k if it didn't have higher damage?

This ^

Edited by RevoluT.

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Jeebs    11
2 hours ago, RevoluT. said:

This ^

Aye that is a good point I never took into account other rifles or there DMG since I only watched one video, I still feel the hit area for one shot is to big from what I seen in that first video my main concern is that having such a powerful gun could divide the community due to so many people wanting to use it, all I hope for is a higher skill gap for sniping and decent balance.

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RevoluT.    15
4 hours ago, Jeebs said:

Aye that is a good point I never took into account other rifles or there DMG since I only watched one video, I still feel the hit area for one shot is to big from what I seen in that first video my main concern is that having such a powerful gun could divide the community due to so many people wanting to use it, all I hope for is a higher skill gap for sniping and decent balance.

Rifles are most probably going to be the option for the highest skill players, since with skill you can deal with both long and short distances, however, the average rifle player wont be able to handle fast action in short ranges against SMGs.

And of course, a lot will depend on the map layouts... there might be maps that will make rifles a bad choice and vice-versa.

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abracadabra    1
6 hours ago, RevoluT. said:

Rifles are most probably going to be the option for the highest skill players, since with skill you can deal with both long and short distances, however, the average rifle player wont be able to handle fast action in short ranges against SMGs.

Skill gap... :x 

we can all say what we want about 1 shot / 2 shot kills but at the end of the day it all comes down to the player if you cant aim at the right spots to get the 1 shot then you simply going to have to have a another shot or............. 5 for some :D

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RevoluT.    15
4 hours ago, abracadabra said:

Skill gap... :x 

we can all say what we want about 1 shot / 2 shot kills but at the end of the day it all comes down to the player if you cant aim at the right spots to get the 1 shot then you simply going to have to have a another shot or............. 5 for some :D

The thing is, the game has sprinting and seems to have a fast pace, if you reduce the area of 1 hit kill people will simply give up rifles and get an MP44 for example.

The kar98k is a non-scope Sniper and should have a decent chance to kill the opponent with 1 shot.

If the enemies are using too many rifles, put your sniper to counter and so on... even the 1 hit kill in COD2(waist/upperleg and above) was not enough to stop the American/British side with those M1's and Thompsons in most maps.

Edited by RevoluT.

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RLpacifist    72
On 25.7.2017 at 9:49 PM, RevoluT. said:

This is impossible with a bolt action... with 3-4 shots a SMG will kill at medium range, by the time a bolt action rifle shoots 2 times the smg will have fired half or more of its magazine.

I'm not sure what exactly is supposed to be 'impossible' here and who said SMGs will kill with 3-4 shots and where you got the RPMs from in order to make such an equation.

Not intending to pick on you particularly here, but it seems some people have that one game on their minds where things are done this or that way and they happen to be incapable of allowing themselves to look into other directions. There's a ton of different shooters out there, with a whole lot of varying approaches to weapon balance and even more possible ways around and in between. Yes, yes I know, Battalion is based on COD2/4 gameplay, so why even bother bringing up any other shooter, but still, people may have different backgrounds. Just keep that in mind.

Anyway, I used the term 'generally spoken' because I didn't really mean to get into the discussion without ever playing the game and therefore simply shared what appears to be more established from the selection of games which I've been playing. To be honest, 'one hit kill to the torso' doesn't sound too appealing to me, but weapon balance is too complex of a field than this would be a maker or breaker all by its own. As of now, all I can possibly say is, yeah that could work out. Depends.

I might come back to the discussion once Beta is running and I can tell first hand. ;)

Edited by RLpacifist

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RevoluT.    15
2 hours ago, RLpacifist said:

I'm not sure what exactly is supposed to be 'impossible' here and who said SMGs will kill with 3-4 shots and where you got the RPMs from in order to make such an equation.

Not intending to pick on you particularly here, but it seems some people have that one game on their minds where things are done this or that way and they happen to be incapable of allowing themselves to look into other directions. There's a ton of different shooters out there, with a whole lot of varying approaches to weapon balance and even more possible ways around and in between. Yes, yes I know, Battalion is based on COD2/4 gameplay, so why even bother bringing up any other shooter, but still, people may have different backgrounds. Just keep that in mind.

Anyway, I used the term 'generally spoken' because I didn't really mean to get into the discussion without ever playing the game and therefore simply shared what appears to be more established from the selection of games which I've been playing. To be honest, 'one hit kill to the torso' doesn't sound too appealing to me, but weapon balance is too complex of a field than this would be a maker or breaker all by its own. As of now, all I can possibly say is, yeah that could work out. Depends.

I might come back to the discussion once Beta is running and I can tell first hand. ;)

I won't make the exact math right now because I don't have COD2 in my hands at the moment.

Imagine this: shoot, messes with the bolt, shoots again

If I'm not too incorrect in cod2 this took around 0.8-1.0 sec and a thompson shoots at 600-700rpm.

The thompson magazine in cod2 had 20 bullets, so as you can see, I'm not that far from the precise result.

Also... Smgs for the sake of balance will take 3-4 shots(torso) to kill, that's common sense.

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HypeRNT    6

Just looking at the poll and seeing how close it is, i dont think there are merits for simply making it 1 shot kill to the body and to the head. I think having from the neck up as a 1 shot makes perfect sense both in real life and in game world.

Im trying to picture a competitive scene and people are just using rifles/snipers because they are 1 hit pretty much from the body up, which can create stale gameplay because people will be scared to cross or peak. Overall, a rifle/sniper doing like 95% dmg if hit in upper chest is not a bad thing, its basically 1 rifle and 1 pistol shot away from death, where as if you hit them from the neck up its insta kill.

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RevoluT.    15
30 minutes ago, HypeRNT said:

Just looking at the poll and seeing how close it is, i dont think there are merits for simply making it 1 shot kill to the body and to the head. I think having from the neck up as a 1 shot makes perfect sense both in real life and in game world.

Im trying to picture a competitive scene and people are just using rifles/snipers because they are 1 hit pretty much from the body up, which can create stale gameplay because people will be scared to cross or peak. Overall, a rifle/sniper doing like 95% dmg if hit in upper chest is not a bad thing, its basically 1 rifle and 1 pistol shot away from death, where as if you hit them from the neck up its insta kill.

Why would anyone pick a rifle then? Most shots will end up being non-lethal... The guy will hide and recover, and you will die 90% of the time to smgs at close range.

The real life argument makes no sense.... Even a single pistol shot to the chest would most likely kill you.

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HypeRNT    6
3 hours ago, RevoluT. said:

Why would anyone pick a rifle then? Most shots will end up being non-lethal... The guy will hide and recover, and you will die 90% of the time to smgs at close range.

The real life argument makes no sense.... Even a single pistol shot to the chest would most likely kill you.

First of, not everyone will be 100% hp all the time so they will get killed even if you tag them in the stomach or chest, second, neck up is a decent size hit box for a weapon that requires skill to use, hence a single shot rifle/sniper is not for everyone....and third, you can tag a guy for 99% of his hp and then 1 tap him with a pistol instantly, its been done before in most shooters, i dont see why this is any different. 

SMG's have a thing called recoil, you cant simple spray them like in recent cods like lazer guns, im sure their damage values will lessen with distance and they will have to close that distance when facing a sniper, especially in a 5v5 when that sniper will have back up.

I love how you keep making an argument that a poor lonely sniper wont kill anyone, but at the same time that sniper will just instantly die to smgs and somehow cant adjust his positioning at all.

I also never made any real life argument, i simply said it makes more sense then being constantly 1 shot in the chest making this game rifles only while constantly strafing like you are playing cod hardcore(disgusting)

 

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WeAsOne    226

The rifles need to be kill at upper chest + head because that's the only way the weapon makes sense..

If you are usind the "real life argument" Lets try to shoot with a kar98 @ your chest and see if you survive.. [I RECOMMEND NOT TO DO THIS] ;)

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RevoluT.    15
2 hours ago, HypeRNT said:

First of, not everyone will be 100% hp all the time so they will get killed even if you tag them in the stomach or chest, second, neck up is a decent size hit box for a weapon that requires skill to use, hence a single shot rifle/sniper is not for everyone....and third, you can tag a guy for 99% of his hp and then 1 tap him with a pistol instantly, its been done before in most shooters, i dont see why this is any different. 

SMG's have a thing called recoil, you cant simple spray them like in recent cods like lazer guns, im sure their damage values will lessen with distance and they will have to close that distance when facing a sniper, especially in a 5v5 when that sniper will have back up.

I love how you keep making an argument that a poor lonely sniper wont kill anyone, but at the same time that sniper will just instantly die to smgs and somehow cant adjust his positioning at all.

I also never made any real life argument, i simply said it makes more sense then being constantly 1 shot in the chest making this game rifles only while constantly strafing like you are playing cod hardcore(disgusting)

 

 1- "First of, not everyone will be 100% hp all the time so they will get killed even if you tag them in the stomach or chest, second, neck up is a decent size hit box for a weapon that requires skill to use, hence a single shot rifle/sniper is not for everyone....and third, you can tag a guy for 99% of his hp and then 1 tap him with a pistol instantly, its been done before in most shooters, i dont see why this is any different.

Answer: I may be blind, but in recent videos I haven't seen a health bar, so I assume they are going to use a similar health style as COD2... with that you can eat a sniper shot and hide only to recover in a few seconds. This makes snipers/rifles nearly useless at long range and make it inferior to SMGs at close range. Why cant you understand this?

2- SMG's have a thing called recoil, you cant simple spray them like in recent cods like lazer guns, im sure their damage values will lessen with distance and they will have to close that distance when facing a sniper, especially in a 5v5 when that sniper will have back up.

Answer: You haven't played the old CODs or seen the Battalion footage on recoil.

3- "I love how you keep making an argument that a poor lonely sniper wont kill anyone, but at the same time that sniper will just instantly die to smgs and somehow cant adjust his positioning at all." 

Answer: What? This makes no sense whatsoever.You clearly never played COD2 or COD4 in a competitive way.

 

Edited by RevoluT.
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HypeRNT    6
4 hours ago, RevoluT. said:

Answer: I may be blind, but in recent videos I haven't seen a health bar, so I assume they are going to use a similar health style as COD2... with that you can eat a sniper shot and hide only to recover in a few seconds. This makes snipers/rifles nearly useless at long range and make it inferior to SMGs at close range. Why cant you understand this?

Holy hell you must be really new to competitive fps games. You can tag a guy and finish him with a pistol pretty damn easy, especially if you know hes guaranteed 1 hit after the tag. You can eat a sniper shot, hide to recover, by then your entire team is dead while you are sitting prone in a corner giving the enemy team a number advantage and still having to leave that corner and get hit again.... Im so confused how you keep belittling the sniper over and over again like they can only shoot once and then its either get a kill or simply die in the spot they are standing in.

 

4 hours ago, RevoluT. said:

Answer: You haven't played the old CODs or seen the Battalion footage on recoil.

Once again you are really new... Battalion 1944 is still being worked on and half the guns are not even in yet, so im not sure how you can say that it will have no recoil. Cod2 had plenty of recoil as well as cod4, certainly more then any cod to come out in years or most other shooters.

 

4 hours ago, RevoluT. said:

Answer: What? This makes no sense whatsoever.You clearly never played COD2 or COD4 in a competitive way.

This actually made me laugh, since ive played in every league that cod4 had to offer in every season that it ran while it was alive, so i clearly can say with 100% certainty that you weren't apart of that scene which makes sense from the lack of understanding about this issue.

Replaying with "what? or "makes no sense " isn't going to help you prove your point, what ever that is, nor discredit what i say, so try harder next time please.

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Connard    14

Some people seem to overestimate their skill. Just look at CS, the SSG-08 (Scout) can only one shot kill with an HS (and possibly in the torso if the guy one already took damage), and even at high level it's not much used (while it isn't expensive).

Speaking of CS, do players complain about the AWP? No, because the economic system counterbalances the imbalance of weapons. So wait & see, how the economic system of Battalion will impact the balancing of weapons.

There are quite a few other factors that are forgotten in this post:
- The SMGs will also be able to one shot kill with a HS at short range (most certainly).
- SMGs usually have greater mobility (in other games and i hope in Batallion too) allowing them to straf around corners more easily, making them harder to aim.
- It is also necessary to see how strong the aim-punch will be in Battalion.

And let's face it, a sniper that can only OS with HS, is not fun to play for 99% of the players. A game is made to be fun to play, whether it is competitive or not.

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DarkMortyr    83

This ^

As I once said. Bulkhead should balance weapons around rifles/sniper rifles if they aim to have a competitive and fun game. CS is very slow compared to what Battalion is trying to achieve and even there you have 1 shot kill with a sniper rifle. Battalion will have much faster movement and players will be harder to hit, so I don't see a reason why should we even have this kind of discussion to nerf rifles so much in a fast paced game. 

I would love CoD4 promod sniper rifles with a weaker secondary weapon. 

Edited by DarkMortyr
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RevoluT.    15
1 hour ago, DarkMortyr said:

This ^

As I once said. Bulkhead should balance weapons around rifles/sniper rifles if they aim to have a competitive and fun game. CS is very slow compared to what Battalion is trying to achieve and even there you have 1 shot kill with a sniper rifle. Battalion will have much faster movement and players will be harder to hit, so I don't see a reason why should we even have this kind of discussion to nerf rifles so much in a fast paced game. 

I would love CoD4 promod sniper rifles with a weaker secondary weapon. 

Exactly... our friend Mr.HypeRNT claims to understand how things work, but clearly doesn't. Probably is really young and IF he even played COD4 was probably an AK-74 rusher.

I'm not sure how I feel about having economy in the game.... I kinda liked the concept of only being able to have 1 Sniper per Team or only 1 shotgun... I don't know. 

1 hour ago, DarkMortyr said:

This ^

As I once said. Bulkhead should balance weapons around rifles/sniper rifles if they aim to have a competitive and fun game. CS is very slow compared to what Battalion is trying to achieve and even there you have 1 shot kill with a sniper rifle. Battalion will have much faster movement and players will be harder to hit, so I don't see a reason why should we even have this kind of discussion to nerf rifles so much in a fast paced game. 

I would love CoD4 promod sniper rifles with a weaker secondary weapon. 

Exactly... our friend Mr.HypeRNT claims to understand how things work, but clearly doesn't. Probably is really young and IF he even played COD4 was probably an AK-74 rusher.

I'm not sure how I feel about having economy in the game.... I kinda liked the concept of only being able to have 1 Sniper per Team and only 1 shotgun... I don't know. 

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HypeRNT    6
11 hours ago, Connard said:

Some people seem to overestimate their skill. Just look at CS, the SSG-08 (Scout) can only one shot kill with an HS (and possibly in the torso if the guy one already took damage), and even at high level it's not much used (while it isn't expensive).

While we are looking at CS, we can look at how specialized that weapon is in an eco system and how its usually only used by one player who is the teams sniper, meaning its not for everyone and nor should it be expected to be used widespread, its a skill gap weapon like it should be, and thats considering that an awp 1 hits from stomach up.

11 hours ago, Connard said:

Speaking of CS, do players complain about the AWP? No, because the economic system counterbalances the imbalance of weapons. So wait & see, how the economic system of Battalion will impact the balancing of weapons.

As i mentioned, there is no reason to complain about that weapon in a competitive setting because its scarcely used besides 1 or 2 players on the team who are designated to actually use it. In pubs however that weapon is mostly banned for the very reason that people dont want to be 1 hit from body up turning into sniper only mode.

 

11 hours ago, Connard said:

There are quite a few other factors that are forgotten in this post:
- The SMGs will also be able to one shot kill with a HS at short range (most certainly).
- SMGs usually have greater mobility (in other games and i hope in Batallion too) allowing them to straf around corners more easily, making them harder to aim.
- It is also necessary to see how strong the aim-punch will be in Battalion.

The smgs were not forgotten, im sure they will not be 1 hitting with a hs from a mile away as im sure there will be a damage drop based on distance, but that is no different then CS when using AK, its perfectly common and no one is complaining about that. SMG's can move all they want, but in an SnD format game they will have to cross certain spots and a skill gap weapon like a sniper or a rifle will shine, but if they can one hit from chest up(reducing the skill level required to use those guns) then it will be a rifle infested game which will turn new people away from the game when they dont even know where they got shot from and insta died.

This should not be a cod2 rifles only game, it should have a proper skill gap needed to make this an interesting competitive Esports fps, ontop of the regular game modes that it will have.

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Masser    55
16 hours ago, HypeRNT said:

While we are looking at CS, we can look at how specialized that weapon is in an eco system and how its usually only used by one player who is the teams sniper, meaning its not for everyone and nor should it be expected to be used widespread, its a skill gap weapon like it should be, and thats considering that an awp 1 hits from stomach up.

As i mentioned, there is no reason to complain about that weapon in a competitive setting because its scarcely used besides 1 or 2 players on the team who are designated to actually use it. In pubs however that weapon is mostly banned for the very reason that people dont want to be 1 hit from body up turning into sniper only mode.

 

The smgs were not forgotten, im sure they will not be 1 hitting with a hs from a mile away as im sure there will be a damage drop based on distance, but that is no different then CS when using AK, its perfectly common and no one is complaining about that. SMG's can move all they want, but in an SnD format game they will have to cross certain spots and a skill gap weapon like a sniper or a rifle will shine, but if they can one hit from chest up(reducing the skill level required to use those guns) then it will be a rifle infested game which will turn new people away from the game when they dont even know where they got shot from and insta died.

This should not be a cod2 rifles only game, it should have a proper skill gap needed to make this an interesting competitive Esports fps, ontop of the regular game modes that it will have.

I'd like to see any of us like the people actively talking in this thread, one shots a guy as he strafes past a doorway, or jumps onto us with a headshot 1 shot kill Kar98. I seriously doubt any of us would be able to, and I can say that just at weighing up the pros and cons of the proposed balance for the rifles it wouldn't be fun. The SMG's would be able to move faster, fire faster, and would result in a game that doesn't really take advantage of its available period. It would be a bit like in a modern game not including AK's or M4's or any other full auto assault rifle or carbine because they have range and damage. You wouldn't be using the period to its potential, as in WW2 bolt actions and semi automatic rifles were given to most soldiers, particularly to the Germans. For me, that doesn't really matter but the setting and coat of paint that WW2 offers is the interesting part. The idea that most people would be using bolt actions instead of SMG's, full auto carbines ect. If you make the rifles as weak as you want them to them only being able to one shot above the neck, you take away their viability and you are starting to turn them into this games pistols when the economic system will be completely different, and so that won't work. We won't be able to save weapons or do eco rounds, it will be a fair bit different. Hence, the only way I see to balance rifles is to make them one shot to the chest and above or stomach and above. If you have a deck of cards you make and you decide to make it so that you have 20 rifles and 10 SMG's, 5 shotguns and 5 sniper or something similar, then you already have to develop a lot of skill with being able to flick quickly and at a high level to use them. They will have a gap between the shots and in that time you'll likely die unless you are just better. Bit of a ramble, and sorry if this was incoherent, but this was just a wall of text displaying my thoughts.

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RevoluT.    15
2 hours ago, Masser said:

I'd like to see any of us like the people actively talking in this thread, one shots a guy as he strafes past a doorway, or jumps onto us with a headshot 1 shot kill Kar98. I seriously doubt any of us would be able to, and I can say that just at weighing up the pros and cons of the proposed balance for the rifles it wouldn't be fun. The SMG's would be able to move faster, fire faster, and would result in a game that doesn't really take advantage of its available period. It would be a bit like in a modern game not including AK's or M4's or any other full auto assault rifle or carbine because they have range and damage. You wouldn't be using the period to its potential, as in WW2 bolt actions and semi automatic rifles were given to most soldiers, particularly to the Germans. For me, that doesn't really matter but the setting and coat of paint that WW2 offers is the interesting part. The idea that most people would be using bolt actions instead of SMG's, full auto carbines ect. If you make the rifles as weak as you want them to them only being able to one shot above the neck, you take away their viability and you are starting to turn them into this games pistols when the economic system will be completely different, and so that won't work. We won't be able to save weapons or do eco rounds, it will be a fair bit different. Hence, the only way I see to balance rifles is to make them one shot to the chest and above or stomach and above. If you have a deck of cards you make and you decide to make it so that you have 20 rifles and 10 SMG's, 5 shotguns and 5 sniper or something similar, then you already have to develop a lot of skill with being able to flick quickly and at a high level to use them. They will have a gap between the shots and in that time you'll likely die unless you are just better. Bit of a ramble, and sorry if this was incoherent, but this was just a wall of text displaying my thoughts.

I agree, the problem is most people that complain about 1 hit kill did not play COD2 which is the main source of ideas for Battalion... The balance in COD2 was pretty good.

1- You had 1 sniper and 1 shotgun for each team, which makes things fair.

2- If the other 3 Germans picked Kar98k's, you as an American or British had the M1 garand which was a great counter, or you could use the smoke and get your thompson's to close range. Plus, for every German that you took down you could take their Kar98k in exchange for your pistol and with that you had the best of both worlds, a SMG and a Rifle.

People don't do the math... no matter how good you are, you are not getting even 40% of your successful shots in the neck/head area, even more difficult when you have sprinting in the game, in COD2 when trading with snipers you always tried to keep most of your body hidden, giving the sniper/rifle only your head for him to shoot... if chest shots don't kill you just need to rush like crazy and bait him to hit you in a non-lethal area.

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