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LoNeZiLLa    55

Aim-Punch is when your crosshair 'flinches' into the air uncontrollably when you get hit by a shot.

Balance-wise, is there an actual reason for it to be in the game? Just because it's 'realistic' doesn't make it balanced and, therefore, a good reason to have it in the game.

 

Imo, no, there isn't. 

Example: PlayerA gets shot in the back by PlayerB's first shot, causing PlayerA's aim to flinch into the air. PlayerB proceeds to miss the next 3-5 shots, but that's okay because PlayerA is still having to wait for their crosshair to recover from the aim-punch in order for them to be able to return fire accurately. PlayerB finally lands their 7th, 8th, and 9th shot, fragging PlayerA.

In this example, you can see how aim-punch can benefit the player with more inconsistent aim. It actually prevents PlayerA from being able to fight back for the duration of the aim-punch. It snowballs the fight in favor of the first player to land a shot (which isn't always the better player). 

Some people will say that there needs to be a punishment for taking a shot, and I would agree with them. The punishment already exists, you have taken damage, therefore, you have less health. There is no need for another punishment, especially one that snowballs the fight in favor of the worse player.

If you were to remove aim-punch, PlayerA would be able to punish PlayerB for missing those 3-5 shots by quickly turning around and landing 4 shots back to back, fragging PlayerB. This means the better player will come out on top, like they should.

 

What are your thoughts?

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seekax    176

This game will have a lot of bolt action rifles, without aim punch those could easily win a fight in close quarters vs an smg or assault rifle. The damage taken wouldn't be a punishment for them since they only require one hit to win the fight. Hence aim punch needs to be in at the very least for bolt action rifles, however i would be in favor of adjusting it on a per weapon basis, e.g. SMGs would receive nearly no aim punch while rifle players receive a significant amount. The flinch should also follow a pattern.

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MattWolf    15

I feel like low time to kill would kind of remove the need for aim punch.

If an smg gets the jump on you, and they have good aim they should be killing you in 2-4 bullets. Having aim punch (depending on how drastic it is/ how long it lasts) would mean if you get tagged on a first bullet you may only be able to hipfire for a shot at living.

I mean, in cod4 promod it wasn't that big of a deal even for scopes because if you got tagged it was relatively short duration aim punch where you could still get another shot off if you weren't getting 2 tapped to death.

 

As long as the aim punch doesn't last a long time/ permanently changes your aim (so the punch would throw aim off, but after .xx seconds it returns to normal) I don't think it'd be that big of a problem.

 

There's a bunch of variables such as weapons, time to kill, how many bullets per kill at xyz range that would tie in to determining if aim punch is needed on top of it.

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LoNeZiLLa    55
On 4/26/2017 at 6:06 PM, seekax said:

This game will have a lot of bolt action rifles, without aim punch those could easily win a fight in close quarters vs an smg or assault rifle. The damage taken wouldn't be a punishment for them since they only require one hit to win the fight. Hence aim punch needs to be in at the very least for bolt action rifles, however i would be in favor of adjusting it on a per weapon basis, e.g. SMGs would receive nearly no aim punch while rifle players receive a significant amount. The flinch should also follow a pattern.

I don't think it would have to be significant (for the bolt rifles), because any type of flinch (minor or major) would cause the bolt players to miss. The SMGs would have to have none of course (like you said).

I think this is the only reason to have it. Thanks for the response.

23 hours ago, MattWolf said:

I feel like low time to kill would kind of remove the need for aim punch.

If an smg gets the jump on you, and they have good aim they should be killing you in 2-4 bullets. Having aim punch (depending on how drastic it is/ how long it lasts) would mean if you get tagged on a first bullet you may only be able to hipfire for a shot at living.

I mean, in cod4 promod it wasn't that big of a deal even for scopes because if you got tagged it was relatively short duration aim punch where you could still get another shot off if you weren't getting 2 tapped to death.

 

As long as the aim punch doesn't last a long time/ permanently changes your aim (so the punch would throw aim off, but after .xx seconds it returns to normal) I don't think it'd be that big of a problem.

There's a bunch of variables such as weapons, time to kill, how many bullets per kill at xyz range that would tie in to determining if aim punch is needed on top of it.

Why does there need to be a feature that throws your aim off?

Please explain why the feature is needed in order to balance the game.

The reason it wasn't that big of a deal for scopes was because the maximum duration of the aim-punch animation is 500ms which is shorter than the time it takes for the scope to be able to fire the second shot. (So if they got tagged when firing their first shot, they had enough time to get cover and pull the bolt back, all while the animation was going on. No matter what, they weren't able to return fire fast enough even if they didn't get tagged because of the rifles firerate)

The aim-punch was a massive deal when it comes to the AK47 and AK74u, as the AK47 fires a shot every 100ms (so getting tagged once meant that you would miss 5 shots), and in a firefight, that means quite a lot.

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Zane    33

Aimpunch has no reason to exist in a truly competitive environment, it just adds a random variable you can't control to the game. So many times i have been killed by guys i was shooting at because they got a lucky headshot on me thanks to aimpunch, just like many times i had my aim right on their heads but aimpunch made me miss the shot. It is bad for both sides and it makes the gameplay less enjoyable overall.

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LoNeZiLLa    55
3 hours ago, vozER said:

 

I guess I should use the search function more often =p

After reading through that thread, it doesn't seem like there was much conversation about aim-punch, it was mostly about economy and then turned into a shitshow lol.

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seekax    176
1 hour ago, [DEV] BRAMMERTRON said:

I believe its used as a reward for a headshot in a game where headshots aren't always kills? 

Joe

Isn't the reward for getting a headshot dealing more damage? Throwing your opponent into rng hell doesn't sound like a reasonable reward.

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dAYZ    4

Aim punch makes sense in a game like cs when you dont have armor, it would make no sense for a game like battalion.

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LoNeZiLLa    55
17 hours ago, seekax said:

Isn't the reward for getting a headshot dealing more damage? Throwing your opponent into rng hell doesn't sound like a reasonable reward.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

19 hours ago, [DEV] BRAMMERTRON said:

I believe its used as a reward for a headshot in a game where headshots aren't always kills? 

Joe

One way that you could have it set up would be having the maximum duration of the aim-punch that you would receive be based on the weapon that you were holding when you got tagged. So if you were holding the AK74u (800 RPM, so one shot every ~75ms) when you got hit, the maximum duration that the aim-punch could last would be ~75ms.

So you would essentially miss one shot every time you got hit.

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LoNeZiLLa    55
On 4/30/2017 at 1:50 AM, LoNeZiLLa said:

One way that you could have it set up would be having the maximum duration of the aim-punch that you would receive be based on the weapon that you were holding when you got tagged. So if you were holding the AK74u (800 RPM, so one shot every ~75ms) when you got hit, the maximum duration that the aim-punch could last would be ~75ms.

So you would essentially miss one shot every time you got hit.

This was only a suggestion if we HAVE to have aim-punch in the game, which I hope we do not.

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ltjakecutter    11

Shouldn't it really depend on where you get hit?  If you want to be realistic, most of the time, when someone gets shot, they don't even know it, because the bullet goes right thru them, hense , no immeadiate reaction from the one getting shot...unless the bullet actually hits a bone, a helmet, armor plate , their belt or gear, the bullet will just sail right thru soft flesh without any reaction...

so, maybe it depends on where the player is hit...

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seekax    176
1 hour ago, ltjakecutter said:

Shouldn't it really depend on where you get hit?  If you want to be realistic, most of the time, when someone gets shot, they don't even know it, because the bullet goes right thru them, hense , no immeadiate reaction from the one getting shot...unless the bullet actually hits a bone, a helmet, armor plate , their belt or gear, the bullet will just sail right thru soft flesh without any reaction...

so, maybe it depends on where the player is hit...

We don't want it to be realistic, we want consistency and good gameplay. If it depends on where you get hit there's no way of countering it consistently at all.

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ltjakecutter    11

Well all right then.....

 

and yes there is a way counter it... You have hit boxes... If you get hit in the head hit box, then there's a reaction... If you get hit in the side gut hit box, then no reaction, if you get hit in the center gut hit box, then a reaction, cause you may hit the spine.

you guys were all concerned about too much reaction, and I simply pointed out that in real life it's not the case, like Hollywood portrays, getting shot and flying 100 ft in the air....but whatever..

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LoNeZiLLa    55
On 5/13/2017 at 0:51 PM, ltjakecutter said:

Well all right then.....

 

and yes there is a way counter it... You have hit boxes... If you get hit in the head hit box, then there's a reaction... If you get hit in the side gut hit box, then no reaction, if you get hit in the center gut hit box, then a reaction, cause you may hit the spine.

you guys were all concerned about too much reaction, and I simply pointed out that in real life it's not the case, like Hollywood portrays, getting shot and flying 100 ft in the air....but whatever..

What would that reaction be? And how would you counter it?

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Masser    55
6 minutes ago, LoNeZiLLa said:

What would that reaction be? And how would you counter it?

The reaction I am assuming he is talking about is the aim punch resulting from being shot.

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