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Blaine_

Reinforcements System

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Remember that "csgo meets cod4 meets hearthstone" thing that was talked about?

Well, In Phantasy's video:

 

He talks about the system and what it could be.

Is there anything to be said about this? What cards will there be? How many rounds until you get a new deck? Will you be able to see what cards your enemies get? etc etc.

If you have any ideas, post em here. If there's anyone who knows about this subject, feel free to post!

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You won't be able to see what your enemy has, you'll have to read and follow what they use. It's similar to how CSGO in game leaders read enemy economies when they save or not. 

But my 2 cents, I hope that the reinforcements system lets us add additional weapons (like phan said, an extra SMG or the trench gun or another sniper). Whenever you're on a round win streak this could bring hype to spectators, honestly. 

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I hope it will be a reinforcements resource to spend on extra items rather than a "on round 4 both teams get 2 smoke grenade cards" type system. This will allow teams to pull off crazier strategies because it will not be as predictable but this may be too much like CS when it's all said and done.

 

Some ideas:

Extra bomb (if it will be a single bomb like CS)

Defuse kit

Different grenades - smoke, gas/fire, flash

Piercing rounds for more wall penetration

Special weapons as mentioned by others - extra sniper, shotguns etc.

 

Please don't add things for the sake of adding them like flamethrowers, mines, mortars, and portable MGs. Those don't belong in a competitively minded game.

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2 minutes ago, jeffu said:

I hope it will be a reinforcements resource to spend on extra items rather than a "on round 4 both teams get 2 smoke grenade cards" type system. This will allow teams to pull off crazier strategies because it will not be as predictable but this may be too much like CS when it's all said and done.

 

Some ideas:

Extra bomb (if it will be a single bomb like CS)

Defuse kit

Different grenades - smoke, gas/fire, flash

Piercing rounds for more wall penetration

Special weapons as mentioned by others - extra sniper, shotguns etc.

 

Please don't add things for the sake of adding them like flamethrowers, mines, mortars, and portable MGs. Those don't belong in a competitively minded game.

solid suggestions, I'd rather have an extra bomb site than an extra bomb though.

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Just some ideas:

1 Extra SMG

1 Extra Sniper 

Shotgun Unlock

Machine Gun Unlock - B.A.R, Bren, Lewis.

Magazine Cards - Extended Magazines, Drum Magazines, Extra Magazines. (EX: Thompson can get a Drum Magazine / +25 Ammo to your ammo count)

Pistol Unlock - Every nation has its own standard issue pistol. You could make a pistol that is very good, but not too OP. (EX: Mauser C96 with Broomhandle Stock and Sight)

Grenade Unlocks - Extra Smoke, Extra Hand-Grenade, Flare Grenade (Flashbang Style Grenade or Spot Players), Firebomb, Gas Grenade. 

Defuse Kit

Larger Plant Area - Make the area on bomb sites larger for more potential areas the bomb could be in that sight. 

Less Bomb Time - Less time for the bomb to explode. (EX: If the default time for the bomb to explode is 45 Seconds, the card would make it so it only took 35 seconds.)

Piercing Rounds - Able to deal better damage through objects and deal more damage to players. (EX: Instead of 4 Bullets killing someone to the chest, it takes 3/2. Nothing too bad.)

 

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I think the economy system should have a limited effect on the game, the utility distribution i can get over, having extra snipers seems a bit much. I get that we need gimmicks to keep people interested who aren't in it solely for the competition, but let's keep the focus on the FPS aspect and not turn this into a glorified card game.

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22 minutes ago, seekax said:

I think the economy system should have a limited effect on the game, the utility distribution i can get over, having extra snipers seems a bit much. I get that we need gimmicks to keep people interested who aren't in it solely for the competition, but let's keep the focus on the FPS aspect and not turn this into a glorified card game.

Well, of course, we all wish for that. The system does not change the game that much, it just adds simple depth. Its just so every round is not the same. 

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47 minutes ago, Blaine_ said:

Well, of course, we all wish for that. The system does not change the game that much, it just adds simple depth. Its just so every round is not the same. 

It adds some tactical depth but it also removes depth from individual encounters and individual rounds since they aren't necessarily on an even playing field anymore. Personally i like winning engagements because i had better positioning, aim, thinking and communication rather than because i flipped a card and had an advantage in that round. I don't know why rounds should have different setups, there's plenty of depth available and just because the circumstances stay the same doesn't mean the rounds play out the same. Take a look at competitive sports, those don't require cards to stay interesting. I doubt football would be any better if the coach could pull a card mid game to have a 12th player on the field or have led filled bags strapped to the opponent's legs for a few minutes.

Edited by seekax
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On 4-4-2017 at 0:54 AM, seekax said:

It adds some tactical depth but it also removes depth from individual encounters and individual rounds since they aren't necessarily on an even playing field anymore. Personally i like winning engagements because i had better positioning, aim, thinking and communication rather than because i flipped a card and had an advantage in that round. I don't know why rounds should have different setups, there's plenty of depth available and just because the circumstances stay the same doesn't mean the rounds play out the same. Take a look at competitive sports, those don't require cards to stay interesting. I doubt football would be any better if the coach could pull a card mid game to have a 12th player on the field or have led filled bags strapped to the opponent's legs for a few minutes.

You know, comparing esports with physical sports like football is really flawed imo. Its apples and pears and impossible to compare.

You have to think about it in this way: when playing bo3 you can play 90 rounds. When all of those 90 rounds are exactly the same: team A and B spawns with a fixed set of utility, team A attacks team B defends jeez that would become stale pretty fast. I remember playing MoHAA and MoHSH back in the day and we would often play bo3 and jeezes in the end the rounds got boring and we would only play 14 round every map, so that 50% of the rounds that will be played in b44.

There needs to be games within the game to make it interesting. IMO an economy system is the best way to do it, but the devs don't go that route. I am curious in how they are seeing this card system. As for now I don't see it working, but we'll see when it is tested and how they intend to implement it.

Overall it's a good idea. f.e. there are 5 sniper rifles available during the first 15 rounds of the game on Allied side. Think about when to use them etc, when they lose a rifle etc etc is a nice touch to the game. I dunno how they will do it, but it is good they are trying to do something. It will evolve over time into something that is functional and interesting I am sure. And if it does not work, they can always introduce economy: we play as special elites hired by the army and we earn money by having succesfull rounds and kills.

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13 hours ago, ToonBE said:

You know, comparing esports with physical sports like football is really flawed imo. Its apples and pears and impossible to compare.

You have to think about it in this way: when playing bo3 you can play 90 rounds. When all of those 90 rounds are exactly the same: team A and B spawns with a fixed set of utility, team A attacks team B defends jeez that would become stale pretty fast. I remember playing MoHAA and MoHSH back in the day and we would often play bo3 and jeezes in the end the rounds got boring and we would only play 14 round every map, so that 50% of the rounds that will be played in b44.

There needs to be games within the game to make it interesting. IMO an economy system is the best way to do it, but the devs don't go that route. I am curious in how they are seeing this card system. As for now I don't see it working, but we'll see when it is tested and how they intend to implement it.

Overall it's a good idea. f.e. there are 5 sniper rifles available during the first 15 rounds of the game on Allied side. Think about when to use them etc, when they lose a rifle etc etc is a nice touch to the game. I dunno how they will do it, but it is good they are trying to do something. It will evolve over time into something that is functional and interesting I am sure. And if it does not work, they can always introduce economy: we play as special elites hired by the army and we earn money by having succesfull rounds and kills.

Why is the comparison not valid. Football is just two teams trying to kick a ball into a rectangle and after 45m they switch sides, jeez that's pretty stale. zPAM and promod have been alive long enough to proof that the gameplay in itself is interesting enough to keep people interested. You don't need to make a game complex by adding a bunch of shallow mechanics if you have a few mechanics which offer a lot of room for improvement.

Economy system like in CS is definitely not something i want, having only every third round on an even playing field is no fun.

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I tried watching e-sports myself (+/- a week ago) and I had a great time.. It was not a really cool game IMO but it was exciting.. It was HALO world championship..

If something like this will happen with Battalion I'm grabbing a beer and some chips and I'll be watching!

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5 hours ago, seekax said:

Why is the comparison not valid. Football is just two teams trying to kick a ball into a rectangle and after 45m they switch sides, jeez that's pretty stale. zPAM and promod have been alive long enough to proof that the gameplay in itself is interesting enough to keep people interested. You don't need to make a game complex by adding a bunch of shallow mechanics if you have a few mechanics which offer a lot of room for improvement.

Economy system like in CS is definitely not something i want, having only every third round on an even playing field is no fun.

Very much agree, fundamentally both "sports" and "esports" are just a game. The "Game inside a game" is the mind games against your opponents when you're competing at a high level, as the game goes on you learn your opponents game styles, tendencies and setups so you learn how to exploit them, the same can be said in a game like basketball.

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On 4/5/2017 at 2:56 PM, seekax said:

Why is the comparison not valid. Football is just two teams trying to kick a ball into a rectangle and after 45m they switch sides, jeez that's pretty stale. zPAM and promod have been alive long enough to proof that the gameplay in itself is interesting enough to keep people interested. You don't need to make a game complex by adding a bunch of shallow mechanics if you have a few mechanics which offer a lot of room for improvement.

Economy system like in CS is definitely not something i want, having only every third round on an even playing field is no fun.

I definitely agree with this. Having an economy-like system isn't really needed, as it doesn't really add anything to the gameplay. (Imho, I think it would take away from the actual gameplay that we all love). It might add something for the spectators and commentators to talk about, but if that's the only goal of this economy-like system, then I can suggest many things that other Competitive FPS games haven't done that will add to the spectating and commentating of the game without touching the gameplay.

For example:

Spectator HUD Elements like heat-maps that have the ability to show things like a certain players route that they've been running off-spawn, grenades that they throw and where they land, frag and death locations, along with in-depth statistics can provide the commentators with information to discuss. They could further speculate what the losing team needs to change based off this information in order to win the next round.

The developers could add a Lua based UI system that allows for the community to script HUD Elements (just like you can do in Reflex Arena). I believe Reflex Arena uses the NanoVG API to do the drawing of the widgets/elements on screen.

 

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