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ToonBE

Classes/Roles

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Hi,

My question is fairly simple: will we have classes (medic, support, rifler, sniper, infantry, blabla,..) OR will we all use the same character model (with the known costumizations, loot drops, battle torn, etc) and we just pick the weapon we want to use: thompson, bar, sniper rifle,...?

Please - p l e a s e - do NOT use class based system.

Everyone needs to have the same character (with their bought or earned costumizations) and just chose the weapons they want to play with. Default every character gets 1 damage nade, 1 smoke nade and 1 fire nade.

I wouldnt mind a buy system, like in CSGO --> big advantage is that it gives depth to the gameplay as well as variation. Eco round, anti eco round, full buy rounds, force buy rounds, weak buy rounds, etc.

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this question was discussed at length months ago and i don't remember the Devs indicating which route they were taking so i came to the conclusion this was something they're keeping close to their chest until we're closer to the alpha.

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This is a good question, and we aren't fully decided actually. It's something that we can change as we go, we're waiting to do some more internal testing to really decide this. 

At the moment, I think we're leaning slightly towards classes, similar to promod cod4. 

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31 minutes ago, [DEV] BRAMMERTRON said:

At the moment, I think we're leaning slightly towards classes, similar to promod cod4. 

Don't. The 'classes' was a left over from the original cod4 game, which was bad.

Meh we'll see. A player having just 1 model that they can costumize with drops they get or items they buy and then choosing their weapon of choice in game makes a lot more sense.

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1 hour ago, ToonBE said:

Don't. The 'classes' was a left over from the original cod4 game, which was bad.

Meh we'll see. A player having just 1 model that they can costumize with drops they get or items they buy and then choosing their weapon of choice in game makes a lot more sense.

You can still have a promod class style system which would let you choose the different classes such as sniper, smg, etc. and have totally customisable player models.

Similar to promod, not identical.

Having said that, I am personally in favour of just picking a gun rather than a "class". I mean it's been a long time since i played promod CoD4 but iirc all the rest of the weapons/equip were the same for everyone to select apart from the primary weapon and the appearance? Is it necessary to have the classes if this is the case? I assumed the reason promod did it was because it was a mod that was working within the existing infrastructure of the game, rather than them actually necessarily needing classes?

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1 hour ago, Freakshow said:

You can still have a promod class style system which would let you choose the different classes such as sniper, smg, etc. and have totally customisable player models.

Similar to promod, not identical.

Having said that, I am personally in favour of just picking a gun rather than a "class". I mean it's been a long time since i played promod CoD4 but iirc all the rest of the weapons/equip were the same for everyone to select apart from the primary weapon and the appearance? Is it necessary to have the classes if this is the case? I assumed the reason promod did it was because it was a mod that was working within the existing infrastructure of the game, rather than them actually necessarily needing classes?

So 'classes' is a term we throw around in house a lot but when we say this we aren't referring to 'Sniper, Medic, Engineer' etc like some kind of Team Fortress style game.

You will always have 1 soldier (for each faction, 1 Soldier for US, 1 soldier for Ger etc) that you can change the appearance of through our unlock system. That soldier can use any weapon in the game. The current plan is that you will be able to pick any weapon, which in a sense is within it's own hidden 'weapon class'. For example, in development terms, the Thompson and MP40 are in their own 'lightweight' class, which means they'll have similar movement values to each other(such as fast ADS movement and lower damage per bullet). Whilst on the other hand a BAR is within a 'heavy weapons' class and has slower ADS movement. Each gun will still be unique and have different recoil/movement values, just internally we refer to them being in different weapon classes as general term.

In terms of what we show to the player, we are probably going to divide the weapon select menu into 'classes' (For example all rifles will be under the rifles tab) but this doesn't mean we are limiting players to X amount of Y class. There may be a point where we decide we would like to limit snipers ETC but this will be found out through testing.

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Posted (edited)

43 minutes ago, [DEV] KingHoward said:

So 'classes' is a term we throw around in house a lot but when we say this we aren't referring to 'Sniper, Medic, Engineer' etc like some kind of Team Fortress style game.

You will always have 1 soldier (for each faction, 1 Soldier for US, 1 soldier for Ger etc) that you can change the appearance of through our unlock system. That soldier can use any weapon in the game. The current plan is that you will be able to pick any weapon, which in a sense is within it's own hidden 'weapon class'. For example, in development terms, the Thompson and MP40 are in their own 'lightweight' class, which means they'll have similar movement values to each other(such as fast ADS movement and lower damage per bullet). Whilst on the other hand a BAR is within a 'heavy weapons' class and has slower ADS movement. Each gun will still be unique and have different recoil/movement values, just internally we refer to them being in different weapon classes as general term.

In terms of what we show to the player, we are probably going to divide the weapon select menu into 'classes' (For example all rifles will be under the rifles tab) but this doesn't mean we are limiting players to X amount of Y class. There may be a point where we decide we would like to limit snipers ETC but this will be found out through testing.

This was what i was trying to get at but with the MG42 and other Machine Guns @[CM] BigTuna

Edited by DukeNukem
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50 minutes ago, [DEV] KingHoward said:

So 'classes' is a term we throw around in house a lot but when we say this we aren't referring to 'Sniper, Medic, Engineer' etc like some kind of Team Fortress style game.

You will always have 1 soldier (for each faction, 1 Soldier for US, 1 soldier for Ger etc) that you can change the appearance of through our unlock system. That soldier can use any weapon in the game. The current plan is that you will be able to pick any weapon, which in a sense is within it's own hidden 'weapon class'. For example, in development terms, the Thompson and MP40 are in their own 'lightweight' class, which means they'll have similar movement values to each other(such as fast ADS movement and lower damage per bullet). Whilst on the other hand a BAR is within a 'heavy weapons' class and has slower ADS movement. Each gun will still be unique and have different recoil/movement values, just internally we refer to them being in different weapon classes as general term.

In terms of what we show to the player, we are probably going to divide the weapon select menu into 'classes' (For example all rifles will be under the rifles tab) but this doesn't mean we are limiting players to X amount of Y class. There may be a point where we decide we would like to limit snipers ETC but this will be found out through testing.

Thanks for the info!

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21 minutes ago, [CM] BigTuna said:

Yeah a BAR is different to an MG42 though ahaha 

It was more for the "class" talk than the weapon itself :P I know a BAR Is different from an MG!!! hahaha ask @Wolf Enstein how many times i gave him cover with the BAR in Day of Infamy!! lololol

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, [DEV] KingHoward said:

So 'classes' is a term we throw around in house a lot but when we say this we aren't referring to 'Sniper, Medic, Engineer' etc like some kind of Team Fortress style game.

You will always have 1 soldier (for each faction, 1 Soldier for US, 1 soldier for Ger etc) that you can change the appearance of through our unlock system. That soldier can use any weapon in the game. The current plan is that you will be able to pick any weapon, which in a sense is within it's own hidden 'weapon class'. For example, in development terms, the Thompson and MP40 are in their own 'lightweight' class, which means they'll have similar movement values to each other(such as fast ADS movement and lower damage per bullet). Whilst on the other hand a BAR is within a 'heavy weapons' class and has slower ADS movement. Each gun will still be unique and have different recoil/movement values, just internally we refer to them being in different weapon classes as general term.

In terms of what we show to the player, we are probably going to divide the weapon select menu into 'classes' (For example all rifles will be under the rifles tab) but this doesn't mean we are limiting players to X amount of Y class. There may be a point where we decide we would like to limit snipers ETC but this will be found out through testing.

Thx, very informative.

You won't have classes then. Just us being able to pick a 'weapon class'.

Also, weapon pick up is a MUST. If I kill a sniper on a certain position I need to be able to drop my weapon and pick up his weapon. This pick up should be transfered over to the next round (when I were to survive the round).

About shooting mechanics, please don't make hip fire obsolete. ADSing is fine as a game mechanic when it means you get first bullet accuracy of 100% and a slightly more zoomed in view for the long distance fighting, but nothing more please. hip fire should be accurate when you are skilled enough to controll the recoil.

about recoil a cool system would be something along the lines of this. The crosshair follows exactly the spray pattern of the gun. This means where you point the crosshair is where the bullets will land. Make this hard by having first vertical recoil and then a slight recoil to left/right or both. This doesnt go as far as csgo, but it is still challenging enough.

Edited by ToonBE
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23 hours ago, DukeNukem said:

............ask @Wolf Enstein how many times i gave him cover with the BAR in Day of Infamy!! lololol

Yep, you ain't half bad with the BAR, bro ;). The close-quarter combat in "Day of Infamy" is intense :).

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I think your ''class'' should just be based on which weapon you use. Not like a medic class that has a med pack that others don't etc. Not a fan of that and I'd be hard to balance properly. Should be similiar to in Cod2, before all the perks and attachments in later installments, you just pick a weapon.

My opinion ofc :D

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On 1/5/2017 at 3:35 PM, [DEV] KingHoward said:

So 'classes' is a term we throw around in house a lot but when we say this we aren't referring to 'Sniper, Medic, Engineer' etc like some kind of Team Fortress style game.

You will always have 1 soldier (for each faction, 1 Soldier for US, 1 soldier for Ger etc) that you can change the appearance of through our unlock system. That soldier can use any weapon in the game. The current plan is that you will be able to pick any weapon, which in a sense is within it's own hidden 'weapon class'. For example, in development terms, the Thompson and MP40 are in their own 'lightweight' class, which means they'll have similar movement values to each other(such as fast ADS movement and lower damage per bullet). Whilst on the other hand a BAR is within a 'heavy weapons' class and has slower ADS movement. Each gun will still be unique and have different recoil/movement values, just internally we refer to them being in different weapon classes as general term.

In terms of what we show to the player, we are probably going to divide the weapon select menu into 'classes' (For example all rifles will be under the rifles tab) but this doesn't mean we are limiting players to X amount of Y class. There may be a point where we decide we would like to limit snipers ETC but this will be found out through testing.

It seems logical to go for 1 Sniper , 2 SMGs and 2 Rifles as classes.

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devs, please tell me there is no shotguns

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10 hours ago, mazh said:

devs, please tell me there is no shotguns

no shotguns? that's as bad as saying there should be no snipers in a WW2 game. as long as the weapon existed in WW2 it has every right to be in the game for the sake of authenticity. the hardest thing to get right in any fps is the weapon balance, not the actual guns. so many people confuse authenticity with realistic but saying no shotguns in a WW2 game goes against authenticity and realistic.

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11 hours ago, Farq-S said:

no shotguns? that's as bad as saying there should be no snipers in a WW2 game. as long as the weapon existed in WW2 it has every right to be in the game for the sake of authenticity. the hardest thing to get right in any fps is the weapon balance, not the actual guns. so many people confuse authenticity with realistic but saying no shotguns in a WW2 game goes against authenticity and realistic.

They said their #1 priority is the game as an eSport, so a decision to not include shotguns at all wouldn't be too outrageous.

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1 minute ago, RAFF said:

They said their #1 priority is the game as an eSport, so a decision to not include shotguns at all wouldn't be too outrageous.

not correct, the no.1 priority was to make the game fun. shotguns could simply be banned from competitive games but exist in public games. i can't see them being left out of the game altogether.

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1 minute ago, Farq-S said:

not correct, the no.1 priority was to make the game fun. shotguns could simply be banned from competitive games but exist in public games. i can't see them being left out of the game altogether.

No game can be successful as an esport if it's not any fun, I hope that's obvious.You make a good point tho, if need be, they can ban them from competitive.

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1 hour ago, Farq-S said:

shotguns could simply be banned from competitive games but exist in public games.

I'm good with that

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On 14/01/2017 at 11:36 PM, Farq-S said:

....the no.1 priority was to make the game fun. shotguns could simply be banned from competitive games but exist in public games.....

+1

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On 15.1.2017 at 2:41 AM, mazh said:

I'm good with that

Same

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Personally I love the idea of "let me take what I would".

I've never understood why I can't put bomb as sniper for example.

Each weapon, as said, have proper mechanics but weight too.

 

If I took only a pistol I would be faster than one with an heavy gun, but if I take many grenades, explosives,... or some armor (now I speak in general, not necessarily for Bat44) perhaps he would be faster than me.

All this aspects make a game balanced and fun... and because it's a game I think that a 100% personalisation can be good.

 

And if after 2 weeks we will see just 1 configuration it would mean that, somewhere, something isn't properly good balanced.

 

Have fun, this must be the first credo of a game and a gamer

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What would people think about the idea of each player having to have a role/class similar to CoD 4, where you only have one sniper, you rilfers and two SMG's? If this has been suggested, sorry :S I did search briefly.

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I personally like the idea of the weapons being assigned to "classes". Roles are both accurate to the reality of how armies of the period operated and gives the developers the opportunity to create varied models with different kit loadouts based off the weapon they are carrying, rather than just copy/pasting one model and inaccurately giving them whatever weapon.

Rifleman

M1 Garand (US Army) - Gewehr 41/43 (Wehr)

Grenadier/Rifleman alt.

Springfield (Rifle Grenadier US Army) - K98 (Rifle Grenadier Wehr)

Springfield Scoped (Snipers were not a role in American Airborne except for 1 scoped Springfield carried by HQ Companies. US Army) - K98 Scoped (Wehr)

Radioman (a US model has already been seen carrying a radio)

M1 Carbine (US Army), M3 "Grease Gun" (US Army) - MP 38/40 (Wehr)

Senior NCO

M1928A1 / M1A1 Thompson (US Army), M1 Garand (optional US) - MP 38/40 (Wehr), K98 (optional Wehr)

Machine Gunner

M1919A4 (M1919A6 on Market Garden/Battle of the Bulge maps) (Surface mounted/hipfired) (US Army) - MG42 (Surface mounted/hipfired)

Specials / Pickups (weapon/class is a pickup on the map / one person on team?)

82nd 505th PIR M1918 BAR Gunner (82nd 505th was the only Airborne regiment to drop into Normandy with BARs) (US Army pickup or class)

Fallschirmjäger FG42 Fallschirmjägergewehr (German Paratrooper) (Wehr pickup or class)

MP44/STG.44 (Wehr pickup or class)

 

Just some ideas.

 

 

 

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