Scarps

Fidelity

117 posts in this topic

16 minutes ago, xXclusiivE said:

They have already stated why there would be a problem to them. Just read back through and look yourself instead of them writing it again..

Don't be a hypocrite, c'mon now.

Did Ryssk recently create a bashing thread since he's being a hypocrite?

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55 minutes ago, xXclusiivE said:

They have already stated why there would be a problem to them. Just read back through and look yourself instead of them writing it again..

 

I haven't followed this thread that much - I kinda think it's a bit pointless, but anyways. I only read about someone complaining that the skins is not a WW2 theme and therefore should'nt be used, the weather were rainy and such back in november or whatever. 

I dont mind you guys opinion, but I really doubt any of these comments will affect the DEVs opinion whether or not they want skins or not. Skins give them more money tho.

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Well, I'll try my best using as little text as possible this time, but I can't guarantee anything.

So, this is what some die-hards keep repeating:

  1. Crazy skins
  2. ???
  3. E-Sports

Followed by:

  1. E-Sports
  2. ???
  3. Great game

Please let this sink in a little before responding.

Sorry, but this doesn't make any sense to me and it seems some believe that E-Sports alone will miraculously make this game great. I don't see the causality here and I'm most curious how this is supposed to link together in reality.

Besides that, believe it or not, but about a year ago Bulkhead used to tell us their goal was to build a great game, which may naturally become an e-sports-candidate eventually because it will be skill based with a competitive scope. E-sports definitely wasn't the number one priority on their list back then and rightfully so in my humble opinion. You can go through older threads and read it up yourself, therefore no need continuing to argue with us about this in here.

Today they have more or less officially turned to 'e-sports first', which is quite a bummer, to begin with. The business model of e-sport companies is to participate in the success of games, not to make those games better in a broader sense. Neither do they participate in the risks of game development. It's all about big money and usually, big money bears a whole lot of awkward pitfalls and has proven to be a safe bet driving great franchises into the ground. Yeah, e-sports may be a selling factor, but hey, it got to be a good game to become a significant e-sports nonetheless. Back at square one? Make a great game first seems to be a reasonable approach. Adding questionable features to gain money, which appears to be required (if at all!) only to get the game into ESL sounds terrible misleading, in my opinion.

So again, I never said that weapon skins are a bad thing per se. However, my understanding of the implementation of 'crazy skins' is some sort of line I didn't expect them to ever cross and so far I still have no reason to accept that 'crazy skins' are a mandatory feature that has to be added at any costs. I'll be fine if they'll prove me wrong, but so far all I see is the will to gain some extra revenue at the expense of a group of customers, that used to be some kind of target group at first.

On a side note, in order to get the full picture, as far as my personal views are concerned, you may take some time and dive into the loot crates-thread and read my posts there. Maybe that will help to understand where I'm actually coming from.

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1 hour ago, pukiz said:

Did Ryssk recently create a bashing thread since he's being a hypocrite?

Depends on what you call recently and if its a thread or post but yes he has multiple times in the past weeks.

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55 minutes ago, RLpacifist said:

Wall of Text

Well, as a matter of fact, they do need the money. And someone did point something out on discord, which was can you actually imagine someone running around with a black and orange M1 Garand? I can't and it wouldn't even look nice. They have never explicitly said the skins will be over the top or crazy, just that they will be in. There is also an element of what the developers define as crazy, and what we do. How do you know it won't just be some tape and etchings as they originally shown, with maybe cosmetic knife skins? So I think, you guys need to just honestly wait and see.

The main point though that we are making @RLpacifist is that you need money for e-sports. It isn't just the development of the game, advertising ect, but instead a whole boatload of things like paying for tournament organizers (Going to ESL and other groups who organize them, and have them do it for them. This may include renting the stadium/place of the tourney, putting money into the prize pool to attract companies to add money into it, paying the extra staff who may do things like casting and a whole range of things) as well as paying for the developers themselves. I know you see games on Steam sell 300,000 copies in a month and think "A good game will always sell if the developers put their heart and soul into it", well even after coverage some absolutely amazing games have only sold a few thousand. Games sometimes pass completely under the radar, despite the quality and effort put into it, which then means you need to think of what these developers do afterwards. They either disband/get other part time or full time jobs and try and work on the game in their spare time or make a new game, or they try and monetize the game itself with the community that has been built up. That's what they are doing. You likely see that they have sold X amount of copies, but that is likely paying for the developers current pay. They need a long term source of income which this provides. I get it, you guys don't want to see a developer become large and money hungry. Neither do I. Some may argue that Insurgency (The game I personally am moving from) is made by money hungry developers due to how they handled content updates and how much of their promises they lived up to. We will have to wait and see though, and just hope that they will stay true to providing a good hearty game. A good game may naturally become e-sports, but it is ESPECIALLY hard without the developers. No developer support means you need sponsors and a LOT of effort from the community, and requires everyone to work hard. In today's environment, that won't happen. You don't get sponsors helping to fund tournaments without the developers support.

Also, if the skins are as harmless and non distracting as they might be, then what's wrong with a bit of tape and some scratching on the side of the gun? As we have said MULTIPLE times now, you don't even need to see them. In whatever form the skin disable option is done, you don't need to see them. That literally nullifies half your argument (not yours personally, but the whole realism argument).

Last little point, but considering the developers said that Battlerank was a big thing for them, and that they said they came from CoD 2/4, and the fact they have been getting ex-professional players from the CoD games to playtest, then what's the big turn around you mention? It's been pretty clear from the start.

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On 3/10/2017 at 3:10 AM, [DEV] BRAMMERTRON said:

Well actually, our questions and tests show that the majority of people *DO want to see the crazy skins even in WW2. We spoke to Ubisoft about Rainbow Six Siege and they said that their biggest mistake was not doing the crazy skins earlier. 

Like I said, it's all being debated currently and not everyone is a fan of it, so if this is the path we chose, we would make sure you could switch it off. Then everyone could get the experience they wanted? That sounds fair right?

Thanks
Joe

Will you give the option to turn it off even on consoles. I've seen so much talk about well if you don't like something just mod it or creat your own dedicated server. I grew up playing on pc but now I've got a console and don't have the money to build a crazy stupid box that can run awesome graphics. I'm not bitching about the fact that I'm not on pc, and I know that your making this for the community gaming on pc. With that said some of these things I'd like to see on consoles aswell. There's more kids and people that don't care about authenticity (unlike myself) on consoles. So if you do read this PLEASE give me the option to turn off the crazy skins on consoles aswel. Sorry if I sound like I'm ranting.

Thanks for everything you do and keep up the great work I'm very excited to see gameplay this week and the final product.

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2 hours ago, xXclusiivE said:

Depends on what you call recently and if its a thread or post but yes he has multiple times in the past weeks.

Oh please DO elaborate how i'm a hypocrite... Like for the love of god please do... Let's see what more random sh*t you can come up with.

 

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, Ryssk said:

Oh please DO elaborate how i'm a hypocrite... Like for the love of god please do... Let's see what more random sh*t you can come up with.

 

Do you think I am going to spend the next 15-20 minutes of my life going back through your post history looking for proof for your uneducated a*s.. I could name out a hell of a lot more who are here who have bashed on certain ideas that the casual guys have made yet when someone bashes on sh*t that you guys like you get all but hurt.. please xD9_9

EDIT: Stop going on the discord to talk sh*t with everyone there. It makes you look shady asf.. #facepalm 

Edited by xXclusiivE
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6 minutes ago, xXclusiivE said:

Do you think I am going to spend the next 15-20 minutes of my life going back through your post history looking for proof for your uneducated a*s.. I could name out a hell of a lot more who are here who have bashed on certain ideas that the casual guys have made yet when someone bashes on sh*t that you guys like you get all but hurt.. please xD9_9

EDIT: Stop going on the discord to talk sh*t with everyone there. It makes you look shady asf.. #facepalm 

Like i said, *random BS*

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Just now, Ryssk said:

Like i said, *random BS*

Little snake.. that's the type of person you are, I may be an a*shole but at least I can confront someone when in disagreement, your like a little shady snake.

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22 hours ago, zabo said:

Skins = more players, more teams, more money, bigger game, possibly more tournaments etc.

Can't see why skins will be a problem for some of you guys?

 

I don't have a problem with the skins. In fact it's great since it'll give them enough revenue to not divide the player base with paid DLC. I just don't want the skins to look retarded. They promised weapon scratchings and other things relating to the "war torn system" that will hopefully make it into the final game.

 

16 hours ago, Masser said:

Well, as a matter of fact, they do need the money. And someone did point something out on discord, which was can you actually imagine someone running around with a black and orange M1 Garand? I can't and it wouldn't even look nice. They have never explicitly said the skins will be over the top or crazy, just that they will be in. There is also an element of what the developers define as crazy, and what we do. How do you know it won't just be some tape and etchings as they originally shown, with maybe cosmetic knife skins? So I think, you guys need to just honestly wait and see.

The main point though that we are making @RLpacifist is that you need money for e-sports. It isn't just the development of the game, advertising ect, but instead a whole boatload of things like paying for tournament organizers (Going to ESL and other groups who organize them, and have them do it for them. This may include renting the stadium/place of the tourney, putting money into the prize pool to attract companies to add money into it, paying the extra staff who may do things like casting and a whole range of things) as well as paying for the developers themselves. I know you see games on Steam sell 300,000 copies in a month and think "A good game will always sell if the developers put their heart and soul into it", well even after coverage some absolutely amazing games have only sold a few thousand. Games sometimes pass completely under the radar, despite the quality and effort put into it, which then means you need to think of what these developers do afterwards. They either disband/get other part time or full time jobs and try and work on the game in their spare time or make a new game, or they try and monetize the game itself with the community that has been built up. That's what they are doing. You likely see that they have sold X amount of copies, but that is likely paying for the developers current pay. They need a long term source of income which this provides. I get it, you guys don't want to see a developer become large and money hungry. Neither do I. Some may argue that Insurgency (The game I personally am moving from) is made by money hungry developers due to how they handled content updates and how much of their promises they lived up to. We will have to wait and see though, and just hope that they will stay true to providing a good hearty game. A good game may naturally become e-sports, but it is ESPECIALLY hard without the developers. No developer support means you need sponsors and a LOT of effort from the community, and requires everyone to work hard. In today's environment, that won't happen. You don't get sponsors helping to fund tournaments without the developers support.

Also, if the skins are as harmless and non distracting as they might be, then what's wrong with a bit of tape and some scratching on the side of the gun? As we have said MULTIPLE times now, you don't even need to see them. In whatever form the skin disable option is done, you don't need to see them. That literally nullifies half your argument (not yours personally, but the whole realism argument).

Last little point, but considering the developers said that Battlerank was a big thing for them, and that they said they came from CoD 2/4, and the fact they have been getting ex-professional players from the CoD games to playtest, then what's the big turn around you mention? It's been pretty clear from the start.

Literally the entire reason I started this post was to just say "I support the skins, please don't take advantage and make them look like they were designed by 4th graders who don't care for historical accuracy." Tape and scratchings are exactly what we need. It will Heighten the immersion. If they add in crazy colorful of god forbid "animated" weapon skins there will be a massive problem. Once you switch them off, you won't be able to see the actual cool, good looking, accurate weapon skins. Anyway, I think that people on this forum think that when I started this, I didn't want skins at all. I really want them since they won't divide the player base, but honestly if they look idiotic I'm passing on this game. I'm not paying $40-$50 on a game to see a pink nazi with an eSports team themed MP44

 

14 hours ago, Ryssk said:

Like i said, *random BS*

 

14 hours ago, xXclusiivE said:

Do you think I am going to spend the next 15-20 minutes of my life going back through your post history looking for proof for your uneducated a*s.. I could name out a hell of a lot more who are here who have bashed on certain ideas that the casual guys have made yet when someone bashes on sh*t that you guys like you get all but hurt.. please xD9_9

EDIT: Stop going on the discord to talk sh*t with everyone there. It makes you look shady asf.. #facepalm 

Play nice u 2

 

On 10/03/2017 at 9:10 AM, [DEV] BRAMMERTRON said:

Well actually, our questions and tests show that the majority of people *DO want to see the crazy skins even in WW2. We spoke to Ubisoft about Rainbow Six Siege and they said that their biggest mistake was not doing the crazy skins earlier. 

Like I said, it's all being debated currently and not everyone is a fan of it, so if this is the path we chose, we would make sure you could switch it off. Then everyone could get the experience they wanted? That sounds fair right?

Thanks
Joe

Actually there was recently a poll on the Batallion 1944 fan Twitter and over 60% said they didn't want the crazy skins while the rest either did or didn't care at all 

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13 minutes ago, Scarps said:

Actually there was recently a poll on the Batallion 1944 fan Twitter and over 60% said they didn't want the crazy skins while the rest either did or didn't care at all 

https://twitter.com/BattalionFANS The page has 353 followers hardly a large sample size

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15 minutes ago, pukiz said:

https://twitter.com/BattalionFANS The page has 353 followers hardly a large sample size

I can't care enough tbh about it for reasons I gave before, but as a critique of that sample size it is only 81 people who put their opinions in.

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Posted (edited)

17 hours ago, xXclusiivE said:

Little snake.. that's the type of person you are, I may be an a*shole but at least I can confront someone when in disagreement, your like a little shady snake.

Can you.. please not?

16 hours ago, Scarps said:

 

Play nice u 2

Always played nice, he seems to have some personal witch hunt going on :)

 

Ok, to clear some things out or rather "vent them out".. i dont know if some people may or may not have a less positive view of me  due to my previous posts that occured during 1-2 months period last year/beginning of this year.

It was pretty much where i was questioning the behaviour from the devs on social media towards other developers. We've talked it through private DMs where we came to an agreement where i was explained the situation. The reason they gave me i've accepted it to 100% and there's no further discussion about that matter..

If this is what "2 faced,hypocrite" means, then i'm sorry.. I'm sorry for being someone who wants to reason with somebody and agree to an agreement.

I am sorry that people such as you Xclusive have an issue with points i've raised in the past, but nowhere have i been rude towards another community member. Or atleast the intention was not to be rude. @xXclusiivE

Edited by Ryssk
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Posted (edited)

Two very small observations I have..... one is my confusion and  obviously it's because I'm too old to fully understand it...in comp mode on the one hand we have the ....we can't have weather because  it effects the pure skill element,but standing there in some brightly coloured uniform or with a brightly coloured weapon has no effect to you being targeted?....... I don't need an answer it's purely an observation like I said I am clearly too old to understand, so I don't need to be told I already know.

However.... secondly one does  not have to be a rocket scientist to see that if these forums are to be believed and acknowledged as a pretty fair representation of feeling about upcoming games..  If Bat44 caters for the competitive gamers...then someone needs to make a game for  the guys that want a classic shooter in a realistic environment with authentic skins utilising the full weather mechanics of the best game engine out there. Because the overall feeling I get now reading the forums is that we clearly have two distinct groups who saw what they hoped for in the Kickstarter! And viewed the same information in very different ways. 

Edited by Dogster
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12 minutes ago, Dogster said:

Two very small observations I have..... one is my confusion and  obviously it's because I'm too old to fully understand it...in comp mode on the one hand we have the ....we can't have weather because  it effects the pure skill element,but standing there in some brightly coloured uniform or with a brightly coloured weapon has no effect to you being targeted?....... I don't need an answer it's purely an observation like I said I am clearly too old to understand, so I don't need to be told I already know.

The brightly colored uniform increases visibility, rain effects decrease visibility. In a competitive environment you want good visibility. For a competitive player the game isn't about immersion or historical accuracy or anything like that, it's strictly about getting better. When you lose a match due to circumstances which you have no control over, like not being able to see your opponent, a competitive player gets frustrated.

Quote

However.... secondly one does  not have to be a rocket scientist to see that if these forums are to be believed and acknowledged as a pretty fair representation of feeling about upcoming games..  If Bat44 caters for the competitive gamers...then someone needs to make a game for  the guys that want a classic shooter in a realistic environment with authentic skins utilising the full weather mechanics of the best game engine out there. Because the overall feeling I get now reading the forums is that we clearly have two distinct groups who saw what they hoped for in the Kickstarter! And viewed the same information in very different ways. 

Well, the game can't be both. They were pretty straight forward about what the game was going to be, so i'm not entirely sure what the folks looking for a realistic game are doing here. It was never going to be that, i don't even see how the information provided could've been interpreted that way. You might want to take a look at the new Red Orchestra, that seems to tick quite a few of your boxes.

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