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xXclusiivE

Why does epsorts have to ruin every damn game

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Why does epsorts have to ruin every damn game. Like is there anyone else out there who's likes to play games just for the fact of trying to have fun, and to just get away from real life?

Like because of esports and its "competitive" players games are ruined by the same routine over and over again. Challenging recoil, linear balanced maps and no damn variety. 

With these games after a month its get repetitive because people start to find "strats" and then you know exaclty what there going to do like, rush here, set up over there, etc.. and then it comes down to who's better and pointing and clicking.

Like what happen to the types of maps in CoD4 and W@W where the enemy could hit you from 6-8 different places rather then 3 hallways which force you to go that direction(Dust II).

Fun Maps..

Screenshot_4dfgdzsg.jpg

Screenshot_22.jpg

linear and boring

Screenshot_21.jpg

 

 

Edited by xXclusiivE
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Well i would like both.. the competitive maps are needed for a fair playground for matches, but i like the unorganized maps for having a lot of fun.. 

Its a good thing thinking about this

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Competitive is the best way to ensure there's a balanced, level playing field. competitive and fun can co-exist in the same game and the player whose better at "pointing and clicking" as you say should always win a gunfight. but to describe it in that way is too simplistic. the pointing and clicking is the player's reward for learning the map and positioning themselves correctly. i'm all for casual/public matches because i spend 90% of my time doing that but i also like the skill and precision that competitive play brings.

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26 minutes ago, WeAsOne said:

Well i would like both.. the competitive maps are needed for a fair playground for matches, but i like the unorganized maps for having a lot of fun.. 

Its a good thing thinking about this

I don't mind seeing some of it shift over towards the casual side but what really pisses me off is how the competitive guys like to take over completely and if its something they hate then they really get grumpy over it. In the end they always get what they want for the most part. There's never a good mix with today's type of games.

Now if the devs would make a some maps casual which are the random maps with more scattered assets and other maps more linear for competitive then by all means awesome but if every make is catered towards the linear side then the esports fanboys win again.

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I understand the fact that linear maps create the most "balanced" playfield with A, B, C, D, E, etc entrances and thats it but wouldn't something like the Second map from the top be something where if you win you feel a sense of pride? I mean If you  can clear each room and move forward to successfully take an objective, would that not make it THAT much more competitive?

Not sure how many of you played Socom 2 on the PS2 but if you did (or didn't ill have the map underneath this) the map Desert Glory had the perfect balance between points A, B, C, D but also had entrance B.1 B.2 C.1 C.2 etc etc. You had options and it wasn't necessarily open but it was fairly linear with some options.

 

desertgloryPUBLIC.jpg

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Always play games for fun and to unwind Used to be in a community that loved to have a laugh first and foremost. The one and only time we tried one of those ladder things in BF2 it was just full of people nade spamming, bunny hopping and dolphin diving all over the place. We were just an old fashioned group of gamers that just wanted a good dust up not a win at any cost type of gaming. Guess their tactics worked just wasn't for us. In the end we just used to play hide and seek to confuse the pro's. Guess we just needed to, I think the phrase is "git gud" :lol::lol:

Hopefully the game will have space for all types of players and game styles. We all get our kicks different ways :P

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8 minutes ago, DukeNukem said:

I understand the fact that linear maps create the most "balanced" playfield with A, B, C, D, E, etc entrances and thats it but wouldn't something like the Second map from the top be something where if you win you feel a sense of pride? I mean If you  can clear each room and move forward to successfully take an objective, would that not make it THAT much more competitive?

Not sure how many of you played Socom 2 on the PS2 but if you did (or didn't ill have the map underneath this) the map Desert Glory had the perfect balance between points A, B, C, D but also had entrance B.1 B.2 C.1 C.2 etc etc. You had options and it wasn't necessarily open but it was fairly linear with some options.

 

desertgloryPUBLIC.jpg

Exactly.. For myself the more diverse the map the more "strats" you cna come up with and the more fun it can be. There's so many ways to approach an objective it always keeps the defenders on there heels. That second map is Outskirts from CoDWaW.

Outskirts gameplay

Edited by xXclusiivE
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On 1/27/2017 at 1:31 PM, xXclusiivE said:

I don't mind seeing some of it shift over towards the casual side but what really pisses me off is how the competitive guys like to take over completely and if its something they hate then they really get grumpy over it.

i've also noticed this in the forums and have commented on it before but, to be brutally honest, the competitive guys are no more or less entitled than anyone else. what you should pay more attention to is how the devs have responded to those comments. the devs have always been very open with players from all backgrounds and they have their own very strong vision for Bat44 which they have consistently stuck to throughout. they're not going to be brow-beaten by any section of players. just because certain groups have been more vocal on the forums doesn't translate into how the game will turn out. we just have to wait and see how the game turns out. only then will we know what feedback the devs took on-board. no need to stress right now.

Edited by Farq-S
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1 hour ago, xXclusiivE said:

Why does epsorts have to ruin every damn game. Like is there anyone else out there who's likes to play games just for the fact of trying to have fun, and to just get away from real life?

Simply put...different people find different things fun!

1 hour ago, xXclusiivE said:

Like because of esports and its "competitive" players games are ruined by the same routine over and over again. Challenging recoil, linear balanced maps and no damn variety. 

Each individual game has it's own mantra with map design, based around the game modes and the style of gameplay it wishes to promote. It's not whether its built for keen competitive players or absolute casuals.

MoH:AA, CoD2 and CoD4 didn't have challenging recoil, and for their time were popular competitive games, the maps were also not linear and balanced, especially MoH:AA. Then again I'm in a minority when I say it shouldn't really matter if a map is harder to attack or defend, because you used to usually play both sides of a map, so it's not like one team has an advantage overall.

1 hour ago, xXclusiivE said:

With these games after a month its get repetitive because people start to find "strats" and then you know exaclty what there going to do like, rush here, set up over there, etc.. and then it comes down to who's better and pointing and clicking.

For you it might be boring but if it was the majority then why are so many people still playing Dust 2 on multiple CS games after all this time? The variation is in different types of tactics and the fact that playing against people as opposed to AI will always adds a layer of unpredictability.

Pointing and clicking is a pretty major part of FPS games be it casually or competitively, that's like saying football is down to who is better at scoring and defending. Of course it is...I mean it's a game but even for a casual kickabout with jumpers for goalposts in the park...you still like to score a few.

 

40 minutes ago, xXclusiivE said:

I don't mind seeing some of it shift over towards the casual side but what really pisses me off is how the competitive guys like to take over completely and if its something they hate then they really get grumpy over it. In the end they always get what they want for the most part. There's never a good mix with today's type of games.

Now if the devs would make a some maps casual which are the random maps with more scattered assets and other maps more linear for competitive then by all means awesome but if every make is catered towards the linear side then the esports fanboys win again.

I was a pretty heavily competitive player and will be getting back into it with Battalion. It will never be too serious but I'm definitely pretty relaxed with what I'm seeing from the devs and I'm definitely not grumpy over anything. I and a vast majority aren't trying to "take over" anything. I think you're taking a bit too much offense from 1 or 2 individuals on here and the fact their views differ from your own.

Both sides of the argument need to be willing to accept that its about give and take. Making demands on why something should be exactly like it was in game X, Y or Z to me at least....is not what Battalion is about. They are trying to create their own game that will be successful in its own right. They take inspiration from the past but I'm sure they know that they have to bring their own portion of innovation to the table in order to make the game a true success.

I have no doubts this game will be enjoyable for a wide audience. However, if you are in doubt, wait and see until enough new gameplay footage comes around and decide. Nothing wrong with that.

There's a lot of different views on this forum and I don't agree with some of them but I also understand some people want something vastly different from me.

If you think this is hard for us gamers who are patiently (or impatiently :P) waiting for this game, then imagine how hard it must be for BH to have the pressure to try and please every wish of every person who lists their wishes for this game. It's an impossible task.

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I made this thread because I needed to vent and let out my opinions. I'm the type of person who will "speak my mind" no matter how harsh it may be. If I were to hold it all inside and not speak out I would burst. My mouth has no filter which may cause problems but we are who we are. 

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Well, I'm not sure what games you have in mind, but as far as I'm concerned the gaming industry has been putting its focus firmly on casual players for the past years.

The sort of gaming experience you are asking for in your first post sounds like you would highly enjoy BF4/BF1/Enlisted and the likes. It is exactly that free roaming just-fo-fun experience with little to no ambitions towards competitive gaming. I'd say give it a go.

Actually, a whole lot of people are tired of exactly this 'casual' scheme and would describe the current situation to be the complete opposite. New games taking a chance at e-sports appears to be a more recent trend, as far as I'm aware. Though, I see where you're coming from considering both of the latest WWII FPS games taking that route.

On a personal note. I don't mind people getting some anger off their jest and speaking clear. However, Bulkhead has been perfectly clear about what this game is going to be about from day one and I'm quite irritated by all those casual-vs-competitive rants going on. I mean, this is like people hanging out in a Sports Bar and lamenting about how they serve no Guinness, but only Budweiser and all those TV screens on the walls are distracting and whatnot, while the next Irish Pub is right across the street.

Edited by RLpacifist
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To make it clear why the competitive players might be trying to ensure this game is as competitive as possible:

 

There is only ONE big competitive shooter atm, which is CS:GO. There are A LOT of players that are looking to switch to another game, and the other games you might think are a competitor to CS really are not. There are hundreds of casual games out there, if you want a casual experience, there are plently of other games you can just have fun in, however, there are almost none you can play competitively in.

This is why competitive players want this game to be competitive.

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I have hard time understanding reason behind this complain... First it is just as RLpacifist and RAFF said how it have been quite opposite for long time in FPS games. Secondly it is often that good competitive game is also good to play casually because the game has to be good in many aspects to attract enough players to build up vast player base or else the competitive side would die out fast too without it and where you get players interested to play competitively if not from casual servers.

Then there is the thing that Freakshow said about MoH:AA/CoD2/CoD4 which are the very games Devs have said to be huge sources of inspiration for Battalion 1944, so I wouldn't worry about it. There are also two things that many writers here seems to forget and those are dedicated servers and mod support. These two things kind of guarantee that there will be maps after maps to choose from and most of them won't be "linear and boring". If anything I see it possible that Battalion will offer more that casual side than CS:GO where other gametypes or community servers are not that much of the thing for players. Potentially Battalion is the game which offer 2-in-1 for its players.

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1 hour ago, Datamursu said:

I have hard time understanding reason behind this complain... First it is just as RLpacifist and RAFF said how it have been quite opposite for long time in FPS games. Secondly it is often that good competitive game is also good to play casually because the game has to be good in many aspects to attract enough players to build up vast player base or else the competitive side would die out fast too without it and where you get players interested to play competitively if not from casual servers.

Then there is the thing that Freakshow said about MoH:AA/CoD2/CoD4 which are the very games Devs have said to be huge sources of inspiration for Battalion 1944, so I wouldn't worry about it. There are also two things that many writers here seems to forget and those are dedicated servers and mod support. These two things kind of guarantee that there will be maps after maps to choose from and most of them won't be "linear and boring". If anything I see it possible that Battalion will offer more that casual side than CS:GO where other gametypes or community servers are not that much of the thing for players. Potentially Battalion is the game which offer 2-in-1 for its players.

Everything you just said was said before so why comment? xP

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Ah... I am sorry that I didn't notice that potential of mod tools and dedicated servers were mentioned already or that someone mentioned how good competitive games also need vast casual player base and therefor need to be enjoyable to play for casual players too who want to play different gametypes than just S&D. All gametypes after all don't necessarily work well in one map so variation is needed. Should have probably read what was written with greater attention to avoid this inconvenience.... eh?

Alone in vCoD many maps were extremely good for competitive gaming and casual playing at same time. Carentan and Dawnville probably best examples because at those maps nearly any gametype worked and I bet that many players here would rank them among top maps they have ever played. If standard maps on Battalion are even close the level of Carentan, Dawnville or other old vCoD maps, there won't be need of worry even for console gamers. I see it that good competitive map will prove to be good in casual too because there can't be too obvious choke points where everyone just gather to spam grenades (eg. BF3 and Metro) and other gameplay dynamics would also need to be good.

I can't name game where competitive maps would have ruin it if there wasn't other problems on game. Closest example could be probably Brink which was aimed to be highly competitive game but what I heard it wasn't fun to play casually as whole and eventually players left it. I haven't played it but maybe someone have and could explain more of why and what lead to its demise.

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23 hours ago, Datamursu said:

Ah... I am sorry that I didn't notice that potential of mod tools and dedicated servers were mentioned already or that someone mentioned how good competitive games also need vast casual player base and therefor need to be enjoyable to play for casual players too who want to play different gametypes than just S&D. All gametypes after all don't necessarily work well in one map so variation is needed. Should have probably read what was written with greater attention to avoid this inconvenience.... eh?

Alone in vCoD many maps were extremely good for competitive gaming and casual playing at same time. Carentan and Dawnville probably best examples because at those maps nearly any gametype worked and I bet that many players here would rank them among top maps they have ever played. If standard maps on Battalion are even close the level of Carentan, Dawnville or other old vCoD maps, there won't be need of worry even for console gamers. I see it that good competitive map will prove to be good in casual too because there can't be too obvious choke points where everyone just gather to spam grenades (eg. BF3 and Metro) and other gameplay dynamics would also need to be good.

I can't name game where competitive maps would have ruin it if there wasn't other problems on game. Closest example could be probably Brink which was aimed to be highly competitive game but what I heard it wasn't fun to play casually as whole and eventually players left it. I haven't played it but maybe someone have and could explain more of why and what lead to its demise.

You make VERY good points.. a competitive game must have a casual side, but a casual game almost never has a competitive side.

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Ok, read some of the things in here and some not.. But really.. how can you expect and request a new casual WW2 game? When there's literally S*itloads of them out there?

The current good competitive games in terms of FPS at this moment are Overwatch and CS:GO

And how can you tell Esports has ruined games? As far as i know you can play CS:GO quite casually in a competitive enviroment yet not except to do anything special (thanks to the ranking system) from what i've seen the game is doing quite well on it?

Overwatch is doing remarkably good with their current comp/casual playstyle. In fact they're doing great i would say!

 

So i dont understand the whole concept of "E-sports ruining games" i think it's more that "Casual players cant adapt or doesnt want to adapt into a more fast paced games with a mixed enviroment"

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7 hours ago, Ryssk said:

Ok, read some of the things in here and some not.. But really.. how can you expect and request a new casual WW2 game? When there's literally S*itloads of them out there?

The current good competitive games in terms of FPS at this moment are Overwatch and CS:GO

And how can you tell Esports has ruined games? As far as i know you can play CS:GO quite casually in a competitive enviroment yet not except to do anything special (thanks to the ranking system) from what i've seen the game is doing quite well on it?

Overwatch is doing remarkably good with their current comp/casual playstyle. In fact they're doing great i would say!

 

So i dont understand the whole concept of "E-sports ruining games" i think it's more that "Casual players cant adapt or doesnt want to adapt into a more fast paced games with a mixed enviroment"

true.  its more "Casual Players ruins Esport"

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7 hours ago, Ryssk said:

Ok, read some of the things in here and some not.. But really.. how can you expect and request a new casual WW2 game? When there's literally S*itloads of them out there?

The current good competitive games in terms of FPS at this moment are Overwatch and CS:GO

And how can you tell Esports has ruined games? As far as i know you can play CS:GO quite casually in a competitive enviroment yet not except to do anything special (thanks to the ranking system) from what i've seen the game is doing quite well on it?

Overwatch is doing remarkably good with their current comp/casual playstyle. In fact they're doing great i would say!

 

So i dont understand the whole concept of "E-sports ruining games" i think it's more that "Casual players cant adapt or doesnt want to adapt into a more fast paced games with a mixed enviroment"

This thread was quite dead but if you was a discussion okay!

" how can you expect and request a new casual WW2 game? When there's literally S*itloads of them out there?"

The year is 2017 and the advancements in gaming engines are amazing since our last good WWII shooter. The last good WWII casual shooter(storyline) was World At War which was made in 2008, 9 years ago. We want to storm the beaches of Normandy, fight in the mountains of Italy, Battle in Stalingrad one more time with all this new tech that will make the game gruesome and beautiful with the new quality that present tech can achieve.

"And how can you tell Esports has ruined games? As far as i know you can play CS:GO quite casually in a competitive enviroment yet not except to do anything special (thanks to the ranking system) from what i've seen the game is doing quite well on it?"

There is absolutely no causal game mode in CSGO. They give you the same exact settings as you get in a comp match but just lessen the number of rounds you play. They can call it the "casual playlist" all they want but it is not casual at all. Same linear maps, same settings, same horrid game mechanics, same everything besides number of rounds to achieve victory.

"So i dont understand the whole concept of "E-sports ruining games" i think it's more that "Casual players cant adapt or doesnt want to adapt into a more fast paced games with a mixed enviroment"

Casual players don't need to adapt because that is not the type of game they want. They want to feel the full immersion of the game and not have to worry about needing to "get gud", mastering this weapon or calling out these areas.

 

For myself I am 50/50. When I "get rekt" in a game I thank my casual side because it gives me the ability to just laugh my ass off 24/7, even when I'm loosing every damn match I am having a blast because I am not 100% competitive. 

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Posted (edited)

On 06/03/2017 at 6:42 PM, rav1n3 said:

true.  its more "Casual Players ruins Esport"

This is a non-sense (to be polite).
Before to be a Pro-gamer, you were a casual gamer.
How casual gamers can ruin Esport ? you have to develop your idea.

Personnally, I don't like the idea to opposite the 2 worlds.
All games need casuals gamers before to reach Esport World. It doesn't work in other way.

It is like football (or soccer for US ! :P) , before to be a pro player, MESSI/RONALDO/ZIDANE .... played with their friends on old dusty field. 9_9

This "war" Casual vs Pro is stupid. IMO  Both world can live peacefully and keep/take the best of games.
Majority of gamers are playing to laugh with friends, not seriously and others players decide to move on pro world/competitve to play more seriously. this is their choice. I respect that.

Edited by Soldat Ryan
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There are way too many casual and ''fun'' FPS games out. Only a few REALLY competitive ones. Honestly, only CS:GO, COD2 and COD4 Promod are competitive and active atm. (Team-based 5vs5 S&D shooters).

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On 06/03/2017 at 10:15 AM, Ryssk said:

how can you expect and request a new casual WW2 game? When there's literally S*itloads of them out there?

There are lots coming that you don't know about that we do.

 

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1 hour ago, [DEV] BRAMMERTRON said:

There are lots coming that you don't know about that we do.

Is that why John Carmack switched our "Return to Castle Wolfenstein" master serverlist back on, Joe? I wonder...... :D ......

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1 hour ago, [DEV] BRAMMERTRON said:

There are lots coming that you don't know about that we do.

 

Indie devs or triple A studios?

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On 3/10/2017 at 6:37 PM, [DEV] BRAMMERTRON said:

There are lots coming that you don't know about that we do.

 

i think you've heavely misinterpreted what i wrote :P , what i meant was, that BT44 will be a competitive game, and not as the other WW2 casual shooters out there. Maybe i've should've wrote it that way instead? I need to get some Pasha London School lessons ASAP!

That was more of a response to the initial thread creator of this topic. 

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