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hate_monger

Different Sniper Limit in teams (SoloQ/TeamQueue)

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Some interesting points from people, I thought about it and have a few theories.

  • Smoke grenades will make avoiding snipers easier. That would reduce the OPness of snipers, so I would be happy to see that.
  • Restricting the number of weapons to be used at once does not seem fair, unless its a rule set by the built-in competitive mode, or a 3rd party website ladder system.
  • People sniping from rank1 will be extreme noobs. Maybe force people to reach rank 10 before they are allowed to use a sniper (which in most games only takes a few hours). At least then people are going to understand the concept of the game after they have played a few rounds as infantry first? Then when they get to snipe they will understand how to contribute better?

Good point! But even on level 1 you can snipe well, it depends on how devs will make de accuracy... in H&G i was rapping people with m1 garand without scope even at long range, you just need to learn the balistic and hip accuracy of the weapon...

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The snipers were limited in WWII the mosin nagant is a sniper rifle used and so is the springfield but each of the snipers were also used without scopes

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I have no problems if people want to hide and snipe, specially if the maps are to be tight and compact. I wouldn't fancy going hand to hand with a rushing mofo brandishing thompson/MP40. Leave the loudouts to the gamers preference i say. Any team worth its salt will have balanced firepower.

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Wow. Sniper rifles health regen kill streaks female skins team sizes game modes... Any amount of other topics and size and use of signatures is the burning issue?!

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Thinking back to my COD/UO/2 days, I liked the balance of only 1 sniper per team (just as in COD 2 there was only 1 shot gunner who had the only smoke grenade). It seemed a nice balance; I played on plenty of servers that modded the balance to allow more snipers and I found that the games turned boring very quickly. I am vehemently anti-sniper, mind, so my opinion is biased. Real (wo)men only use Iron sights! :P

Detailed info on the use of snipers in WWII is thin on the ground; however, it is known that the Russians deployed snipers en masse but the other nations only used them as specialists attached to battalions. The Germans only really started using snipers in reaction to the Russian use (the Germans had no sniper squads as such) and the British tended to frown on their use as 'underhand' (and had a lower ratio of snipers to infantry than the Germans); no idea about the US numbers of snipers to infantry. If BAT44 uses US/German protagonists then the logical assumption IMO would be that their numbers would be limited.

Edit:

(Data from http://www.angelfire.com/ct/ww2europe/stats.html) US Airborne Infantry Platoon: 36 men, 2 M1919A6s, 22 rifles, 14 M2 carbines, 1 60mm mortar, 1 sniper rifle and 1 bazooka

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I had an idea (not sure if discussed already) regarding the sniper limits for each team during competitive/ranked play. 

If there are snipers in the game there should be a 1 player per team limit in my opinion. Obviously in a structured clan/team with set roles there wouldn't be any need for any change except the limit in place.

But the idea that I have in mind for the Solo queue ,that the developers planned on implementing, there could possibly be an option for you to click in the weapon you want to play before searching a match(or however you do it) so that the Sniper doesn't just go to the first person loading the server.

However that could possibly make matchmaking take longer, but it's something on my mind. I don't wanna be forced to play a weapon/class that I don't enjoy because I was the last player that joined.

You could possibly instead have a voting system instead where you can vote on who should have the sniper, maybe a track record display for each player that shows that you would be the preferred choice?

Right now I'm just spitballing but it's something to consider. I've seen people write ''scope plz'' way too many times during my cod4 days'.

Edited by Oco
  • Upvote 2

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This makes a lot of sense really, having some kind of ''track history'' on what role or weapon someone is using would be a good idea to have in solo que as you say, in teams this will not a a problem at all. You have your set roles and so on. And it's not just only for the person playing with the sniper that it benefits rather the entire team it self. Having someone one that spend their time to get good with a sniper is way more deadly then another person who has never played with it in this game.

I like this idea a lot. Makes sense aswell. Specially for people with a lower end pc. ^_^

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5 minutes ago, Zorna said:

Having someone one that spend their time to get good with a sniper is way more deadly then another person who has never played with it in this game.

Yes, but the person that never played and perhaps wants to try should still be able to, which is why the first option to pick what you want before matchmaking would be a bit superior. These are all ideas to build upon of course.

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3 minutes ago, Oco said:

Yes, but the person that never played and perhaps wants to try should still be able to, which is why the first option to pick what you want before matchmaking would be a bit superior. These are all ideas to build upon of course.

I guess you can just switch classes then but you spawn in as the ''sniper'' would be a good idea maybe? And ofcourse you have the game outside competetive aswell so you can play with it your self without feeling that you're not bringing anything to the team i guess.  :) 

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9 hours ago, Oco said:

I had an idea (not sure if discussed already) regarding the sniper limits for each team during competitive/ranked play. 

If there are snipers in the game there should be a 1 player per team limit in my opinion. Obviously in a structured clan/team with set roles there wouldn't be any need for any change except the limit in place.

But the idea that I have in mind for the Solo queue ,that the developers planned on implementing, there could possibly be an option for you to click in the weapon you want to play before searching a match(or however you do it) so that the Sniper doesn't just go to the first person loading the server.

However that could possibly make matchmaking take longer, but it's something on my mind. I don't wanna be forced to play a weapon/class that I don't enjoy because I was the last player that joined.

You could possibly instead have a voting system instead where you can vote on who should have the sniper, maybe a track record display for each player that shows that you would be the preferred choice?

Right now I'm just spitballing but it's something to consider. I've seen people write ''scope plz'' way too many times during my cod4 days'.

Let everyone choose the weapon they want. Its not OK to restrict this. There will be weapon balance, so having more then 2 snipers won't make a lot of sense.

Anyway, you'll have trolls if you limit sniper amount or not.

Best would be to introduce an economy like in csgo and make the sniper expensive. It'll also make that every round is different. Full buys, eco's, anti eco's, etc....

  • Downvote 3

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2 hours ago, ToonBE said:

Let everyone choose the weapon they want. Its not OK to restrict this. There will be weapon balance, so having more then 2 snipers won't make a lot of sense.

Anyway, you'll have trolls if you limit sniper amount or not.

Best would be to introduce an economy like in csgo and make the sniper expensive. It'll also make that every round is different. Full buys, eco's, anti eco's, etc....

i don't think there'll be a restriction on snipers and i agree there shouldn't be if the weapon balance is right. i also don't think there will be any kind of economy because one of the fundamental gameplay principles is no weapon progression or attachment unlocks. all players will have unrestricted access to all weapons in the game from day one.

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12 hours ago, Oco said:

If there are snipers in the game there should be a 1 player per team limit in my opinion....

 

I agree with this idea too, If you're playing in a competitive team, in a competitive match. Public servers? Make sniper slots available in regards to how many players are on the server at the time. 12 players on the server? One sniper per team. 20 players on the server? Two snipers per team and so on.

We implimented this on our Wolf ET servers in respects to the medic class and it works really well.

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35 minutes ago, [DEV] BRAMMERTRON said:

I like this, I think Heroes of The Storm, League of Legends, and DOTA all do this. The problem is, I bet we'd have 75% of the players wanting to play sniper and struggling to find a game.

Thanks
Joe

A que like league or dota will kinda hinder this game then make it feel like a MOBA. Please don't do that! Im not sure how it will affect the ingame play if there are just "slots" that need to be filled but one way you can make it a grab game is make sure everyone is loaded into the game first then a 5 second countdown for the slots to open. Rifleman is (unlimited slots) (standard issue weapon for the side), Assault (2-3 slots) (thompson, MP40, MP44, BAR), Heavy Rifleman (unlimited slots) (special semi autos G43, SVT40, etc), Support/Machine Gunner (1 slot) (its in the name), and Sniper (1 slot) (scoped rifles). 

This way at least there wont be a matchmaking problem and only a toxicity problem when people pick a class that is limited and will not be doing well. Games will be quickly found and load times will not hinder you from not being able to pick a class.

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25 minutes ago, [DEV] BRAMMERTRON said:

I like this, I think Heroes of The Storm, League of Legends, and DOTA all do this. The problem is, I bet we'd have 75% of the players wanting to play sniper and struggling to find a game.

Thanks
Joe

Yeah this will be tricky in ranked queue. Possibly have a period once matched where people can discuss/pick classes to play? Not sure.

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6 hours ago, [DEV] BRAMMERTRON said:

I like this, I think Heroes of The Storm, League of Legends, and DOTA all do this. The problem is, I bet we'd have 75% of the players wanting to play sniper and struggling to find a game.

Thanks
Joe

Exactly what I thought, too. It would be a problem for sure.

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10 hours ago, Farq-S said:

i don't think there'll be a restriction on snipers and i agree there shouldn't be if the weapon balance is right. i also don't think there will be any kind of economy because one of the fundamental gameplay principles is no weapon progression or attachment unlocks. all players will have unrestricted access to all weapons in the game from day one.

I meant an economy as in csgo. 

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On 2017-01-13 at 3:50 PM, [DEV] BRAMMERTRON said:

I like this, I think Heroes of The Storm, League of Legends, and DOTA all do this. The problem is, I bet we'd have 75% of the players wanting to play sniper and struggling to find a game.

Thanks
Joe

Yes, as I mentioned this may become an issue depending on the activity on the SoloQ ladder. But some kind of system is what I was getting at. I just came forward with two ideas for this, I strongly believe that you developers will find some way to make it work.

Also thanks for the reply!

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Let everyone choose and play as he likes, stop trying to turn this game into a competitive game only,( thats a mistake imo they are making at DoW forum by stearing it into a DoD competitive game only) to succeed this game's lifespan u not depending on competitive gamers only, but also on the players just below that and most of all, the casual players, in fact its the content and custom content that will make sure a game's lifespan is extended for years to come.

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It is a quite tricky problem, because currently no matter which FPS you play, everyone wants to be the sniper doing fancy 360s or just camp. It is the current generation of players that simply want to snipe. Personally I find the current sniper spam in other games very annoying. I think everyone witnessed how the team couldn't win because all the teammates decided to play sniper, which resulted 90% chillin in back and doing absolutely nothing helpful.

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assuming the player count is 5v5, a limit of 3 players of any one class could be applied. this would go further to allowing more than one player to snipe and for the other classes there'd be a max of 3 semi-auto rifles, 3 smgs or 3 shotguns. if a team was playing on a small map and wanted a short-range primary they'd have the choice of an smg or shotgun although many players tend to stick with their favourite weapon regardless of the map. that said, a 3 class limit would also gently push players to use a class other than their preferred class if all the slots were filled so would encourage players at all levels to learn to use more than one class. a 3 class limit would also allow players to change their class during a game which encourages players to think more tactically. it also encourages team play rather than players selfishly picking up that 4th sniper or 4th shotgun.

Edited by Farq-S

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5 hours ago, Icey said:

Let everyone choose and play as he likes, stop trying to turn this game into a competitive game only,( thats a mistake imo they are making at DoW forum by stearing it into a DoD competitive game only) to succeed this game's lifespan u not depending on competitive gamers only, but also on the players just below that and most of all, the casual players, in fact its the content and custom content that will make sure a game's lifespan is extended for years to come.

Mate, they have to try to turn the competitive side of the game, into something COMPETITIVE. 

 

I don't think anyone cares about the sniper limit in TDM (which admins will be able to change anyway), the discussion is mostly for the competitive games.

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2 minutes ago, RAFF said:

Mate, they have to try to turn the competitive side of the game, into something COMPETITIVE. 

 

I don't think anyone cares about the sniper limit in TDM (which admins will be able to change anyway), the discussion is mostly for the competitive games.

explain if u like m8, i agree with u that the competitive side needs to be as competitive as it can be, but isnt that affecting the whole game in general in terms of release?

so in short, not that the less competitive players and the casual players getting affected by this.

but maybe i understand u wrong

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