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hate_monger

Different Sniper Limit in teams (SoloQ/TeamQueue)

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This is a non-issue. It's a server setting, not a development option.

This is not entirely true... Are you a Dev? hmm i dont think you are...

We are not just talking about the amount of snipers, we are talking about how the sniper class could unbalance the game. How do you know there will be private dedicated servers? How do you know you will be able to config these servers? by a guess? There will of course be a set standard for the gametypes, amount of health, amount of bullets. Who cares if you can have infinite ammo and loads of health by creating a custom config on your server? It would be utter rubbish if every server had a random combination of server settings. You need 1 set standard across all the servers people play. You have "Standard" or "Custom" servers. I do not play custom servers, they are just for fun, not competitive. So the issue stands that this is in fact a real issue that does warrant discussing.

Every kid is going to pick sniper from day 1 and they are going to be:

1. Utter rubbish, because their aim will be disgusting.

2. Helping their team lose, because they cant cover anything.

3. Provide no support in firefights, because they are too busy finding a camping spot to hide.

4. Turn the game into a sniper only contest, forcing people to sit back and not rush.

If those things happen I will be quick to uninstall the game. Snipers can be lamers and make the game boring for everyone else. If the snipers are good skill then I dont mind, put one in enemy team and one in my team and you have balance. The problem I have is noobs trying to snipe before they bothered to learn how to play the game...

I play DirtyBomb and they made the sniper hard to use, all the noobs get it literally makes it so who ever has the most snipers in their team loses. That game allows you to unlock it at rank 1. so my point was, dont allow it to be unlocked until people at least know how to play the game first.

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How do you know there will be private dedicated servers? How do you know you will be able to config these servers? by a guess?

Or maybe because they told it on kickstarter page ! :twisted:

Reliable Server Hosting with Multiplay. Battalion is teaming up with Multiplay to bring players the most reliable and highest quality in game servers. Alongside our official servers, players will have the ability to host and change server rule sets to suit their own gaming needs. Server admins will be able to choose to have BattleRanked, unranked, or private game servers.

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Guns should not be limited not even snipers....if you get killed over and over by other team using snipers ...then adapt and take a sniper yourself ....snipe them untill they give up and choose a different gun or ragequit or just keep sniping them and make them useless to their team....If you cant kill other snipers whilst using a sniper yourself ..then you are crap and need to improve. Theres many other ways to deal with people using snipers and the answer isnt letting the game limit there useage because you cant outplay a sniper using a sniper or another gun.

Sorry its the truth ...sick of games getting dummbed down because people suck at them and cant learn to get better.

Anyways im sure the devs will make guns balanced and the maps will have tacticle cover too to help get closer to snipers if using a smg or something...better yet pick out a rifle and headshot them ...easy.

Also like whats been said before ....people will choose different weapons and the game will balance itself out regardless.

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As a allways being sniper in all FPS games i disagree with this ridiculous discussion!

Its a War, in war rules doesnt exists.

If you dont wanna be killed by a sniper, be smart and play safe, not an idiot that shoot and run all the time like a shotgunner. I think that we wont see a sniper scope soon, the game will be made by a few players so the maps will need to be a little smaller to provide constant action and at this point Snipers will be in disadvantage.

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I like this idea, I'll be fighting its corner against the other devs. Nothing worse than public cod4 (not promod) on mp_crossfire.... EVERYONE GRAB SNIPER AND WAIT.

Yes, this should be controlled IN CERTAIN GAME MODES. Not everything and also, server admins should have charge over this on the unofficial servers.

Joe

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I like this idea, I'll be fighting its corner against the other devs. Nothing worse than public cod4 (not promod) on mp_crossfire.... EVERYONE GRAB SNIPER AND WAIT.

Yes, this should be controlled IN CERTAIN GAME MODES. Not everything and also, server admins should have charge over this on the unofficial servers.

Joe

Luckily promod servers limited them, thankfully. Citystreets and crossfire were the worst maps for having loads of snipers, impossible to cross anywhere since nobody used their smoke grenades in pubs.

As annoying as it is, I think it should be left with the server admin if they want to limit it or not.

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You could place weapon restrictions as an option so that dependant on the amount of players in a team. We do and perhaps for the guys that have not played I should explain a little:

BTW this is not a side swipe at getting classes again I'm just illustrating a server option

I'm ET there are these classes

Soldier

Medic

Engineer

Field ops

Covert ops

A soldier can use mortar. Flamethrower. A mobile Mg42. Panzerfaust or Thompson/ mp44

So we made it so that for every 6 players you can have one soldier one medic and one field ops so 7 v 7 2 medics or 2 soldiers. 13v 13 3 and 3... Until server capacity at32 players. We did restrict to one fops as it was a joke to have 3 or 4 and you would just never get out of spawn.

(our ET server)

So I assume you could have it so there were 2 scoped players but don't set it in stone as with ET sniper maps had a big following. Again the mantra just make it a server option then you will play on Serbs that suit your style and clans could set their servers how it would suit them too.Hope this helps

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Those things should be limited, but I'd like to see one deviation from the cod2 system. Smoke grenades are important, yet on cod2 only the trenchgunner has a smoke grenade, I hope the type of nades won't be restricted to a certain class.

There should only a limit to the sniper, the rest should remain free of restrictions. (rifles and mg's)

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You could place weapon restrictions as an option so that dependant on the amount of players in a team. We do and perhaps for the guys that have not played I should explain a little:

BTW this is not a side swipe at getting classes again I'm just illustrating a server option

I'm ET there are these classes

Soldier

Medic

Engineer

Field ops

Covert ops

A soldier can use mortar. Flamethrower. A mobile Mg42. Panzerfaust or Thompson/ mp44

So we made it so that for every 6 players you can have one soldier one medic and one field ops so 7 v 7 2 medics or 2 soldiers. 13v 13 3 and 3... Until server capacity at32 players. We did restrict to one fops as it was a joke to have 3 or 4 and you would just never get out of spawn.

(our ET server)

So I assume you could have it so there were 2 scoped players but don't set it in stone as with ET sniper maps had a big following. Again the mantra just make it a server option then you will play on Serbs that suit your style and clans could set their servers how it would suit them too.Hope this helps

The only thing with Medics are they slow the game down so much, at the beginning of our dev cycle I was actually pro medics but I've been worn off them. I like the idea that the weapon you choose dictates your class in the sense of being faster or slower, more smokes, less nades etc.

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The only thing with Medics are they slow the game down so much, at the beginning of our dev cycle I was actually pro medics but I've been worn off them. I like the idea that the weapon you choose dictates your class in the sense of being faster or slower, more smokes, less nades etc.

Agreed 100%. Plus, medics can often be biased toward their favorite healing targets.

I do like the way ET does the health. I know you like regen and that's fine if it is done right, but for DM I'd love to see a resupply like ET has in a limited number of places in each map so that if you are half dead you can just run in and resupply ammo and heal up.

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Limiting the use of guns isn't a wise choice imo. If you have a well balanced game with balanced maps it's simply not viable to use 5 snipers in a team of 5 for example. This is already proven on CS... you rarely see a pro team running more than 2 snipers and even that setup is rare. Limiting gun use would only create complications and frustration among people who want to snipe every now and then and people who tend to do it all the time.

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In our team we played on snipe only servers so for dedicated servers I would say NO limits!

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Some interesting points from people, I thought about it and have a few theories.

  • Smoke grenades will make avoiding snipers easier. That would reduce the OPness of snipers, so I would be happy to see that.
  • Restricting the number of weapons to be used at once does not seem fair, unless its a rule set by the built-in competitive mode, or a 3rd party website ladder system.
  • People sniping from rank1 will be extreme noobs. Maybe force people to reach rank 10 before they are allowed to use a sniper (which in most games only takes a few hours). At least then people are going to understand the concept of the game after they have played a few rounds as infantry first? Then when they get to snipe they will understand how to contribute better?

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Some interesting points from people, I thought about it and have a few theories.

  • Smoke grenades will make avoiding snipers easier. That would reduce the OPness of snipers, so I would be happy to see that.
  • Restricting the number of weapons to be used at once does not seem fair, unless its a rule set by the built-in competitive mode, or a 3rd party website ladder system.
  • People sniping from rank1 will be extreme noobs. Maybe force people to reach rank 10 before they are allowed to use a sniper (which in most games only takes a few hours). At least then people are going to understand the concept of the game after they have played a few rounds as infantry first? Then when they get to snipe they will understand how to contribute better?

If this game is going to work with a ranking system and unlocks, then there will be quite a few people disappointed, so let's hope that's not going to happen. Unless in the competitive rules there's no ranking system and you can just use what you want, then I'm fine with it.

Quite a statement to read though, "people sniping from rank1 will be extreme noobs". Some people have been sniping since cod1 and even before (including myself) so that's kinda awkard to read.

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Yes, this should be controlled IN CERTAIN GAME MODES. Not everything and also, server admins should have charge over this on the unofficial servers.

Amen ! :D

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Quite a statement to read though, "people sniping from rank1 will be extreme noobs". Some people have been sniping since cod1 and even before (including myself) so that's kinda awkard to read.

lol... noob = newbie = beginner... This is a new game so technically yes you will be a noob because its your first go. You're telling me that the first time you play this game you will know where the bombs are that get planted? you will know where the best sniper positions are? you will know which direction your team is going? Where the enemy spawns? I could go on and on, the answer is "not really no", you will be clueless newbie just like me. But... maybe if you run about a bit then you will pick it up quicker. Lets say you win 5 games using an MG class, then you could probably use a sniper and do a better job with it. I dont agree with weapon unlocks, but I do think having limitations at the start will encourage new players to actually be effective because they would have sensible weapon classes. Lets say you played this game 6 months and a new guy joins your team, are you going to enjoy speccing him try to snipe on his first go? Im trying to contribute towards this games policy, so that problems\mistakes I see in other games dont get reproduced in this. I rather be on a server with decent snipers and not noobs that cause absolutely no impact to the enemy team. Stop trying to belittle me with "makes me feel awkward", Im trying to contribute, but you are too up your own ass thinking im calling you low skill. maybe you should be more mindful of those definitions. I promise you the first thing new players will want to do is get a sniper and hide somewhere, literally all of them, it will take the fun out of the game

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Yes, this should be controlled IN CERTAIN GAME MODES. Not everything and also, server admins should have charge over this on the unofficial servers.

Amen ! :D

Thank god!

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Quite a statement to read though, "people sniping from rank1 will be extreme noobs". Some people have been sniping since cod1 and even before (including myself) so that's kinda awkard to read.

lol... noob = newbie = beginner... This is a new game so technically yes you will be a noob because its your first go. You're telling me that the first time you play this game you will know where the bombs are that get planted? you will know where the best sniper positions are? you will know which direction your team is going? Where the enemy spawns? I could go on and on, the answer is "not really no", you will be clueless newbie just like me. [...]

OFF TOPIC

To be honest I will always fell myself as noob with this points.

I hope that the bomb/objectifs positions would be random, so as the spawns too (I know... on little maps it would be hard and the tactical location would be just few... but please not always the same sposts).

Sniper position? I hope on some long range opportunity but a sniper can stay into a building under assault (if in squad), so you would never be sure about a sniper position (the top of a church/Hill? To much obvious... just good enough to be fasted spotted)

OFF TOPIC 2

Level for weapons??? No! For me all must have on lvl one all weapons with all possible addons (scope/muzzles/...). You take your weapon and you have the same "arsenal skill" even if you are at your first connection or at the last level. Now the players skills would make the difference

ON TOPIC

As already write by my self... I wouldn't have only a class limitations but the opportunity to set limitations for each class/weapon (and parameter... :mrgreen: )

If we speak for competitive and official match I'll stay on my mind (each team have to be free to play as she would... as sayed: snipers against heavy machine guns? Not sure that the sniper team would be easily the winner... You would a skill based game? Well, you are the "skiller", you can, as player, as team,.. make the difference. Why make a limitation about a point like this?)

But if the community would have class limitations for competitions... it's OK when for the unofficially stay free.

:mrgreen:

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CH_SwissWolf":137os5ak]

...

Interesting argument, as you say, a team full of snipers vs a team full of MG's completely depends on how difficult the sniper is to use, walk speed, bullets, locations. We will see, i hope it doesn't turn into a sniper only game, would be a waste.

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Quite a statement to read though, "people sniping from rank1 will be extreme noobs". Some people have been sniping since cod1 and even before (including myself) so that's kinda awkard to read.

lol... noob = newbie = beginner... This is a new game so technically yes you will be a noob because its your first go. You're telling me that the first time you play this game you will know where the bombs are that get planted? you will know where the best sniper positions are? you will know which direction your team is going? Where the enemy spawns? I could go on and on, the answer is "not really no", you will be clueless newbie just like me. But... maybe if you run about a bit then you will pick it up quicker. Lets say you win 5 games using an MG class, then you could probably use a sniper and do a better job with it. I dont agree with weapon unlocks, but I do think having limitations at the start will encourage new players to actually be effective because they would have sensible weapon classes. Lets say you played this game 6 months and a new guy joins your team, are you going to enjoy speccing him try to snipe on his first go? Im trying to contribute towards this games policy, so that problems\mistakes I see in other games dont get reproduced in this. I rather be on a server with decent snipers and not noobs that cause absolutely no impact to the enemy team. Stop trying to belittle me with "makes me feel awkward", Im trying to contribute, but you are too up your own ass thinking im calling you low skill. maybe you should be more mindful of those definitions. I promise you the first thing new players will want to do is get a sniper and hide somewhere, literally all of them, it will take the fun out of the game

Actually, I wasn't trying to belittle you at all, I just really think it's awkward to see someone basically ignoring the fact that some people have been playing similar games for over a decade, and by that ignoring their experience in the approach of such games. To answer your first rant, if we'd get access to a map of the map (if you know what I mean), it's not hard to figure out where which classes will/should be used, nor is it too hard to see which are the key points on the map, anyone who's willing to see it will see it. So the answer to your first part is actually more yes than no, and that's not being arrogant that's just being realistic and speaking out of experience with several familiar games. And about the bombs, usually the 2 (speaking in terms of sd) possible points to reach for the attacking side are marked from the beginning, so it's not hard to figure that out either. Just one run on an empty server on every map and it's really not hard to figure out how it's going to be played (if we wouldn't have access to an actual map).

Even if I were up my own arse, I'd still not be arrogant enough to underestimate people who come from a very competitive background who've been doing this for a decade. <- actually, even if they've not been doing it for a decade or longer, I'd still not underestimate them, as people from a competitive background usually have a very different approach to games.

However, I do agree that even if they're not capable of using it, people might go for the sniper, might, because there are also a lot of people who simply don't like sniping, some people just like to get in the opposing team's faces for example. The thing is though, do you actually believe that making them go up a few ranks, they'll be better at using the sniper? I honestly disagree, since you've taken away the sniper from them from the beginning until that rank, and the sniper has a whole different approach to the game, they'd still be just as ineffective as when you'd let them have the sniper from the very beginning.

A sniper might profit from knowing what it's like to play the other roles, but the most important thing is to know the routes, that is the very most important thing for a sniper, the routes, and by taking away the sniper for the very first few ranks, you're basically taking away their chances of discovering the essential routes from the very beginning. Agree or disagree, I stick to my points.

On a sidenote: we're mentioning ranks even though I thought it was already mentioned there wouldn't be any ranks, because ranks usually go hand in hand with unlocks, which isn't going to happen (apparently/hopefully).

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CH_SwissWolf":3bwj9u2s]

...

Interesting argument, as you say, a team full of snipers vs a team full of MG's completely depends on how difficult the sniper is to use, walk speed, bullets, locations. We will see, i hope it doesn't turn into a sniper only game, would be a waste.

This can append only if all would be snipers... you wouldn't so be others, this mean that you can be the winning firepower difference if you aren't sniper.

You will fight against individual and team skills, this would make the skill competition (imho)

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Some folk will want to use a sniper rifle from the start. People have built competitive play on quick scoping and being able to use sniper rifles efficiently. They can match MG players if they're good enough but a lot of the time, it isn't easy.

I don't think a limit on sniper rifles is needed. Surely that's down to the individual server etc. At the end of the day, a team full of snipers vs a team of MG is only going to have one winner and it won't be the team of scope folk, regardless of game type (possibly with the exception of DM/TDM but then that largely depends on the spawning system)

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Limiting the use of guns isn't a wise choice imo. If you have a well balanced game with balanced maps it's simply not viable to use 5 snipers in a team of 5 for example. This is already proven on CS... you rarely see a pro team running more than 2 snipers and even that setup is rare. Limiting gun use would only create complications and frustration among people who want to snipe every now and then and people who tend to do it all the time.

I totally agree!

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