heady89

Ladders/tournaments Competition

30 posts in this topic

... little over a month ago when I first joined the Battalion community I was very pleasantly surprised with everything from the community, to the developers and their goals. And as a long time gamer and fan of competitive old-school games I thought I'd help realize the vision or at least inspire more to do so. I enjoy coding different passion projects from time to time and since I havn't had one going for awhile I thought of the idèa of smashing two flies in one and create a prototype ladder/cup-system for Battalion44 with inspiration from legacy systems such as clanbase and esl.

The idea is that you can register players which in turn can create teams, these teams can then invite players or players can apply for enlisting. Teams will then be able to join/apply for different events. (The creator of the team will be the owner of the team and rule its administration (in the future support might exist for delegated control). That would include things like approving members, joining events etc. Events are either cups, playoffs or ladders, each with a different rule set containing anything from round limits and player limits, to weapon limits and screenshot requirements. In the first iteration the ladder system will be available.

All in all the idèa is to create some core pillars on which people can compete, communicate, and play against eachother with ease, both casually and hardcore with ladders and rules catering towards both sides. Teams should be able to brand themselves as a fun, serious, amd upload logos and information etc.

I've been working on this for about a month now and as you probably understand it takes a lot of time, especially since it's all built from scratch without any backend-frameworks or equivalent (price to pay if you want clean code to maintain and extend ;). In its current state I've finished the routing and mvc structure which is the skeleton of the whole application. Login & register systems works and are almost completed a long with basic ER-diagram (database layout). The flow of teams, members, events all works and i'm currently working on the graphical forms for the users to interact with the profiles & teams, also working on the matching backend for ladders.

I'm now wondering if there is enough interest to take this project into a production-state ? The goal would be to deliver it by the time that battalion44 releases, granted that the community is interested and that the developers would approve.

As a side note the GUI has not been the main focus but gets overhauled from time to time when I revisit the different sections. The backend is structured in such a way that rather drastic changes to the GUI wouldn't be impossible. The frontend mentality is that the GUI shouldn't be too cluttered or complicated to understand while supporting complicated tasks with minimal interaction. Inspiration is derived from legacy systems such as Clanbase and Esl while staying more clean and approachable.

If this is something of interest then I'd happily take suggestions and feedback on features and information that players would like to have.
 
Hope you all have a great Christmas and enjoy your Holidays!
-heady89

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preview_mobile_ladders.png

preview_mobile_menus.png

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preview_team_view.png

preview_teams_view.png

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Hi Heady89,

You did an impressive work but there is maybe a duplication by some points with original "Battlerank". (just asking)
IMHO, you should talk directly with devs before to move forward on your project to check if what you are working on is not similar of them.

But in all case as i said : great work. :)

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Interesting , I havnt heard of battlerank but it does indeed seem to fill a similar void, which is good imo, unusual with developers doing everything right on all fronts ;)

No worries and thanks :) I kinda always wanted to build a platform like this and thought battalion was a fitting/deserving target game. It could be applied to most competitive games in it's current state since the aim is a skeleton platform for competitive play, so you theoretically could add more games similar to clanbase or such :)

Edited by heady89
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BattleRank is mentioned in the kickstarter pitch. i see a lot of potential duplication with your prototype so suggest you get feedback from the devs before you proceed further as Soldat suggested.

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1 hour ago, Farq-S said:

BattleRank is mentioned in the kickstarter pitch. i see a lot of potential duplication with your prototype so suggest you get feedback from the devs before you proceed further as Soldat suggested.

As far as I've understood it's an in-game system under developers control ? (which this isn't meant to be)

Sounds good if they pull it off without adding restricions, so that 3rd party matches like esl etc can take room without interferring with their in-game systems.

 

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But yes, redundancy is unneccesary work in this case, and if continued beyond prototype-stage it will be as a game independent platform that can be branched for specific projects/games.

Cheers for informing me about battlerank, totally missed it and hope it delivers :)

Edited by heady89
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I like what you did m8 but like Soldat said, make sure you talk to the devs first before you continue !!

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I can see a lot of potential for this, I've just sent you a personal message on this website.

Edited by Jester
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Hey guys. I just wanted to grab some interest and your thoughts. 

I have been involved in FPS gaming for quite a long time dating back to Mohaa and the original Call of Duty series. I was heavily involved with clans/teams at the time and if many of you recall there were several gaming leagues, ladders and tournaments. Obviously over time these have disappeared and it seems like that competitive scene has gone with those games. I know there is still some comp around for hardcores like Counterstrike etc but nothing like the "old days". 

I'm not sure if you guys recall Team Warfare, but they used to be big on ladders and back in the day were quite successful in what they were doing. They are still around but in their former shell and don't seem to have that momentum anymore because it takes them too long to make decisions They were not ESL or CAL but they were fun for casuals with a team who wanted to find some competitive games and have fun. My question is, if something like this existed for Days of War and Battalion 1944, would you sign your team up to play 5v5 games etc? Is this something people are still interested in? Record keeping, bragging rights, whatever you'd like to call it.

I am in a position to make something like this a realty and I have substantial experience running a successful league and may be looking at diving back in. No bullshit, straight WW2/military game competitive gaming, non pro casual games to get people working towards something, perhaps cash tournaments or prize tournaments.

Let me know your thoughts. Its a huge investment but i'm looking at diving into another project. 

Cheers.

 

**I know there has been significant discussion about how Bat 1944 wants to be a competitive shooter and i'm sure if that's the case there will be some of the major leagues to pick it up. This is for the people who don't want to go that hardcore into it.

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Hi fxR and welcome to the forums ;). I think that many of the players here could be interested in that type of competition gaming, not too serious, but still very competitive. I'm sure they'll let you know, one way or the other.

Thanks for your kind offer.

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It might probably be best to keep everyone in the same ladder, serious or casual. But make it so that teams can only play against people that are their "elo" or "rank", so that the people who are around that skill level, to avoid them playing against the top 10 teams. I think it would be damaging for the game to split the community.

Edit: Maybe even do something like Cybergamer does, where they have an "invite" league, where they are separated from the usual teams. But keep them connected so that the top teams on the normal ladder, can progress into higher ones. This way they are separated, but connected at the same time.

Edited by Jester
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@heady89

This is amazing work. If you get this working it would mean a lot for the competitive side of the game. The only consideration I have at the moment is that I have read somewhere that the devteam is working on an ingame team ladder. Maybe you could pm them and start working together?

It would be nice to have this feature when the game releases in Alpha stage. Apart from bugreporting we can have some competitive fun and give feedback on the competitive side of the game.

Good work!

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Posted (edited)

Hey@heady89,

This is totally awesome. I used to play CS:S on Enemy Down (RIP) on a system exactly like this. This looks much cleaner to use aswell.

Like everyone has mentioned, we are working on BattleRank, however this is just the term we're using for our competitive matchmaking system. The majority of players nowadays want to boot up a game and play a serious competitive match without having to go to external websites etc to find a team/match. Systems like this are great for people that don't have the time for that anymore (my free time to play competitively with a team gets less and less every year) or people that are new to the game and have never been exposed to competitive play. It's those people with less time or newer to the game that BattleRank is targeting, which in turn opens the way for an external website exactly like this for hardcore players. We are talking to companies like ESL etc about similar external support but it's always good to have a grassroots alternative.

BattleRank has been revised since the launch of the Kickstarter, and currently will not show an actual team leaderboard/ladder (but will however track in-depth team based stats when matchmaking etc to improve the experience when playing as a team). Just like in CS:GO or Overwatch, players who are really serious about competing will go to external websites like yours where the competition is higher to climb a world ladder. We expect the same to happen with Battalion and projects like this will only strengthen the game as a competitive title. I'd love to see this become successful and if the community gets behind it and signs up, we'd be aiming to support projects like this (eg. if you have a community weekend cash prize tournament etc) and we would be likely to share these via our social channels.

It's very cool for us to see something like this in development (especially before Alpha has even released!). There are probably others that will try to do the same thing so getting a headstart is a good idea :) Nice work

Edited by [DEV] KingHoward
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so battlerank will no longer show ranking/ladders?

it's now just a matchmanking system?

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1 hour ago, mazh said:

so battlerank will no longer show ranking/ladders?

it's now just a matchmanking system?

BattleRank is the name we're using as a broad term for our matchmaking/stats/seasonal competitive games.

You won't see an exact rank number, but you'll see a 'ranking' which will be used to divide teams into competitive 'divisions'. Teams can then compete within their division to be the best and at the end of the season, the top players will receive cosmetic rewards. BattleRank combines this with team based stat tracking, allowing you to really improve as a team and see which areas of the game you're improving at and which need improvement. For example we're aiming for teams to see their entry frag success rate and their map win/loss percentage etc. We still plan on implementing BattleRank seasons where the best teams will get cosmetic rewards for their play.

The issue with implementing an actual visible ladder/leaderboard is that, even if you have amazing anti cheat, cheaters are proven to flock towards multiplayer games with official leaderboards to get that sweet #1 spot and the most coveted ingame rewards. We'd much rather have an external ladder be hosted by the community, as it's much easier for the community to self police in that regard. The ladder will still exist on our internal servers, it just won't be public information to players.

The reality is that it's the community that will grow the top level of the competitive scene. We aim to assist that growth through BattleRank by providing a competitive environment for players within the game itself, so that when players want to go to that next level of competition it'd be great to have these kind of external websites backing the game.

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Posted (edited)

I'm sold again. Thanks for the explanation King

Edited by mazh
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if you're familiar with CSGO, @mazh, you know how people who want a competitive environment and not casual would play match making. But when people are ready to make a team and take their competition to the next level, they go to ESEA. It seems like they are following this type of model which is perfect. There's a level of competition for all types of players which should help attract many players!

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7 minutes ago, sh0tyz said:

if you're familiar with CSGO, @mazh, you know how people who want a competitive environment and not casual would play match making. But when people are ready to make a team and take their competition to the next level, they go to ESEA. It seems like they are following this type of model which is perfect. There's a level of competition for all types of players which should help attract many players!

Another way to explain it is the way League of Legends does it at the end of every season and their general method of Matchmaking. Though i have a grip with this and will grind my gears all day long.

I am a competitive person and of the few who admits their mistakes, says "im good but i have my bad days", and i HATE when my rank depends on some random person who is AFK or just plain trolling. When that happens, i lose my mind. In league i was a high tier silver (rankings go bronze 5 through 1, sliver 5-1, gold 5-1, plat 5-1, and challenger 5-1) and i stayed there because of random noobs just screwing things up. I couldn't advance because of it but when i play custom games against pro players i hold my own very well. I am not going to say i won ALL my games but when we lost, we lost because we got outplayed not because some dude was AFK or just a plain (excuse my french) moron. I feel that this type of system will invoke a toxic community BUT the GOOD things about battalion is that IT IS NOT FREE and people who buy the game are genuinely INTERESTED in the competition or just the game itself.

Though the next thing that has to be done is have community members go through reported players and recorded games to punish those who intentionally troll in ranked games or cause problems. The other thing is there has to be something where players aren't punished when they do good and lose, a solution could be 3 of the 5 members of the team get free passes only attained by votes from both teams. You cannot vote for yourself so there will be times where there will be an even amount of votes from all 5 where there will be a penalty in rank but not as harsh. This will restrict people from spewing negativity in game and will help the game stay respectful along with being competitive.

 

Idk what do you all think?

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They already have something like this made for the old MOHAA community which has just recently been launched.

It's just like the old ClanBase was and it's doing pretty well, i regularly play matches there and it feels just like the old days.

This is the site: http://scrimbase.com/

I think they would most likely want to feature this game when it comes out.

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14 hours ago, Djoriz said:

They already have something like this made for the old MOHAA community which has just recently been launched.

It's just like the old ClanBase was and it's doing pretty well, i regularly play matches there and it feels just like the old days.

This is the site: http://scrimbase.com/

I think they would most likely want to feature this game when it comes out.

Nice! Don't think I could go back to it (especially with Battalion around the corner) but great to see there's still a competitive community around for my all time fave! 

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On 1/10/2017 at 10:11 PM, Djoriz said:

They already have something like this made for the old MOHAA community which has just recently been launched.

It's just like the old ClanBase was and it's doing pretty well, i regularly play matches there and it feels just like the old days.

This is the site: http://scrimbase.com/

I think they would most likely want to feature this game when it comes out.

Thx man,

never knew about this. It should get more attention.

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Well it is really new, i think it's running for almost 2 months now.

That's probably why you haven't heard about it, but you can already see that there are still a lot of people playing Mohaa.

Hope Battalion will bring even more people back to this awesome genre ;)

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Would be great to have a followup of Clanbase again, that would make it perfect.;)

 

EDIT : oh wow, i just looked on scrimbase as mentionend above but that is really like Clanbase,  i recoqnize even some teams on it from the old mohaa days :D

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ahhh the good old elo ranking system, brings back memories of clanbase...those were the days! COD2 CTF!!!!!!!!

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