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Loot Crates & Weapon Case drops, what are your thoughts?

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@Djred84 you will split the community, DLC is proven to not work. I'm not allowed to give specifics, but on games like Battlefield the conversion rate of active players purchasing DLC is insanely low, it just doesn't make an impact. It did 10 years ago, I remember buying all the BF2 expansions, because it created longevity, but now it doesn't work like that. 

Overwatch model: regular updates with maps, characters, content etc all for FREE, charge cheap amount for loot crates and low amount for retail price.

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@Djred84

Please note that I've never say that I didn't buy DLC but just that I understand that you will have people that doesn't buy them.

My focus was more that bulkhead need in future money for X reasons for BAT44.

On the same time WE are a part of community. As example, let say that no body others would buy BAT.

Fine, we play!

Then here you have a first DLC.

Perhaps someone can't take the new DLC (other job, no more money,... we can have many examples and the reasons can be indipendent of us... a boss fire someone, healthy problems,...).

Well, now we have perhaps 75% from the old community that play on server with DLC and 25% on server with "old maps"

Than you have a new game, and as gamers most of us would perhaps try them, and so you loose players that can't bought the new game and the DLC, and they bought just the new game because some friends would play at the new game and they dislike Battalion.

Now we still 50% on game with 25% on the 1st DLC servers and 25% on the root servers.

 

 

We will have a splitted community.

Less players = less fun = ...

 

If Bulkhead find others way to have financial incoming (donations, crates/in game shop -even if I still prefere donations-,...) I think that it would make a difference.

We will surely see some players  fluctuations, but if they know that the they can always come back without problems the community will stay probably stonger, and the game can survive for years.

 

 

Ups... type only during little work breaks wasn't a good idea... @[DEV] BRAMMERTRON was faster then me and I think exhaustive.

Edited by [NGBC]CH_SwissWolf
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I may be naive, but if a game is "really" good, if it has good feedbacks/reviews, if it is at the good price, the sales will be here.

@[DEV] BRAMMERTRON, you fear to do not get enough money to develop the game in long term, but be sure, you won't get massive sales from the start because currently you are selling an unfinished game. What i read on Steam (and i think it is why you start to looking for new economic model) people have some doubt about indie games because of previous fail. So wait for (as us) the final release and sales will be higher.

With kickstarter, you said us you got enough cash and more to develop the game you want to do. If you release the game you promised (i have no doubt on it) the success will be here. Why ? Because, the gamers have a huge expectations about new WW2 game (specially if it is minimum at the same level of COD2 - i think i told it yet ! :$)

If all elements are presents (good game, good reviews, good price) you should reach an amount of sale enough high to works for years on Bat44.

Freakshow given an exemple earlier with 100K sales (and between us i guess your objective if higher than 100k sales) :
if you set the game price at 40€

100 000 x 40 = 4 000 000
With kickstarter, you did yet 300 000 to build the game.
So with all sales you should be able to build 10 Battalions and rent servers in the same time.

Between both games (they are the same) which one will get most sale ? Which one you want to buy ?

bat44-2 copie1.jpgbat44-2 copie.jpg
 

What you have to do it is an amazing works, and gamers will follow you, then may be, if again needed, start to think micro-transaction.
Again, don't forget, today you are selling an unfinished game (not released) so it is normal that players are suspicious. (refering at the steam thread)

PS : Just thinking about it, (but i guess you did it yet) you have also something to do with servers providers (multiplay, gameservers, ....) ask them a "little" commission on each slots/servers they are rented. It is what are doing DICE for BF games.

Edited by Soldat Ryan
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Sorry guys but I don't see how the income from an online only game sold for a low retail value where you give away content like maps, characters etc and your only source of income after the game is sold is a small charge for loot crates that most people won't buy as you will be able to grind out all the unlocks. Too me that is a game that is going to struggle to pump out new content and maintain servers, work on new titles etc. Unless I’ve totally missed something here?

Surely charging a small amount for DLC and loot crates makes more sense? If the game is good the dlc will sell. Look at destiny,cod,halo etc. Paid for dlc can still work if done correctly but hey I'm not expert so whatever you guys think is best and all.

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Yes it will sell, but also split the commumity.

We all need a way to finance it all without a split between player that bought the game and players who bought the game + dlc.

These days im playing cod1 and cod:uo, and hate the fact its splitted. If it wasnt splitted we had more players online together, so we had more fun.

So what we want: afinance-healthy game we could play all together.

 

Let us know if you got more ideas:

- rentable servers

- pay for cosmetic unlocks

- crowdfunding for dlc (will it work?)

- a buy-in competition?

- an expensive collectors edition?

- payd singleplayer dlc

- let us buy Battalion t-shirts and caps (and a mini Bat. soldier for car dashboard :P )

- .....

 

 

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Holy Sh... What are you doing to the Game?

 

Read your own Kickstarter Plan:
325 000 £ = British Forces Join the Fight (not reached)
350 000
£ = MORE COSMETIC   (not reached)

So stop thinking about a way to generate more Money. If you need that, you have a mistake in your Masterplan.
You want to create a CALSSIC Multiplayer shooter, so do that, nothing else.

You do not need to host game servers,  because of dedicated Server like Classic Multiplayer shooter.

Please remember your self, what you "sell" at Kickstarter. Stay on the Road. That`s for what i pledged.

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@Faithnall

What about getting DLC's for free.. Don't you like that? Paid by players that have bought cosmetic unlocks , rented servers and things like that.. (all in ww2 setting)

Edited by WeAsOne

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On 12.11.2016 at 8:11 AM, WeAsOne said:

Let us know if you got more ideas:

- rentable servers

- pay for cosmetic unlocks

- crowdfunding for dlc (will it work?)

- a buy-in competition?

- an expensive collectors edition?

- payd singleplayer dlc

- let us buy Battalion t-shirts and caps (and a mini Bat. soldier for car dashboard :P )

- .....

 

 

First of all I would rather play a well funded game with a split community, than a poorly funded game that is not split. That could be a disaster. A split community sounds way worse than it actually is however, if players don’t like having access to future DLC maps etc then perhaps after say six months the maps become free to download for say a week or so? Would bring gamers back to the game and be crazy :) Or maybe have a separate kick start for DLC to ease costs? Could work.

 

 

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I have expected something like this from day one and I'm perfectly fine with it. I personally don't give much about visual customizations (selling anything I gather at CS:GO right away), however, different weapon models as told above sound pretty interesting.

As for further contents, I always wondered whether funding would be a working solution. I mean, you show us what you want to make, calculate how much money you need and ask the community to back. Pretty much like kickstarter. Everyone will get the new contents of course, regardless he backed the thing or not.

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40 minutes ago, RLpacifist said:

As for further contents, I always wondered whether funding would be a working solution. I mean, you show us what you want to make, calculate how much money you need and ask the community to back. Pretty much like kickstarter. Everyone will get the new contents of course, regardless he backed the thing or not.

Exactly what I was talking about.

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I prefer dlc in the form of maps and factions above purchasing crates with loot, I understand that it splits the community and its the reason I stopped buying BF games because they release a DLC just months after release but there must be a way around it.

I think Arma does it well , not sure if its possible but would it be possible to add maps + factions and for those that haven't bought the DLC they can only play the maps but can't pick the new faction and weapons?.

That way you can maybe ask a larger amount, like $10 - $15 and keep creating new content.

Anyway as long as it does not turn into a P2W game I'm happy with whatever way it goes, as long as I don't have to see people running around with purchased santa hats and other retarded unlocks.

 

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Bulkhead, do whatever you feel is best for the game. At the end of the day, you need to go with what will keep the game alive the longest, not what a few people on the forum prefer. I trust you and your team to do whats best for the game, so just give the whole thing a long hard think with the rest of Bullhead and come up with an idea that will help the game in the long run, and implement it.

My only opinion on this is, do not go the DLC route, it will split the community.

Edited by Jester
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So basically it is kinda 50/50 when it comes down to filling out the best option for financing the game along the way. There was a good point made though, that according to your extensive breakdown of costs to make the game (more than any other dev team has ever done afaik), 300K would be sufficient to provide a full game (at least with two factions, but do we really need more at this point or in the near future?). 

And with the expectation of amounts of copies to be sold, which should imho also be much higher than 100K mentioned earlier, against a avg. base price of €40 there should be more than enough income to work on free DLC for the next 1/2 years beside any server to run. At least 4 million.

And i try to keep hammering on the fact that this game will most likely be picked up by clans who are dying to play another WW2 competitive shooter after so many years and this game/community will be nothing like games out there already. These clans will have servers up (both public as private) in NO time. So i doubt that at release day there is a lack of servers to be played on really. This game attracts a willing community that WILL want to pay for DLC in the future. 

And by handing out some free DLC's (weapons, maps) at first, you will get them more hooked on from the start. Besides, as i said before the DLC can also focus on the SP part for more content (campaigns) and make the MP maps available for everyone thus preventing 'splitting up the community'. Thinking outside the box here is what is needed. Learn from the mistakes made by competitor (examples given by yourself). They are FORCING people to buy additional stuff with a "in or out" formula.

Back in the days it worked like this: As soon as a server has a new map in the map list (either made by modding community or a new official map from BH), a player would be put in a download queue first, and before being able to join that specific server he had to download that map. 

So where is the splitting up from the community coming from in that case? New weapons should just be available in SP mode then.

GL
Mastah

Edited by y!NMastah
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4 hours ago, WeAsOne said:

@y!NMastah

If you put it like that, i totally agree. You hit the nail.

 

I second that, i really liked it when i was able to just download the map i don't have to play. Same thing that C&C Generals did. Custom maps are playable by all, just gotta DL the map before the game starts

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All by all, don´t forget the need of Bugfixing and Balancing after Release.  You know, if there a chance to use a bug or use unbalancing, a very large amount of Player will use it.

" You can´t make a System safe for Idiots, cause they are to creative..."

That needs most Time and is critical to the Game. Most negative Reviews based on Bugs and unbalancing. It can kill the Game.

So the most Time after release is focused on that, so no time for DLC programming :)

 

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16 hours ago, Faithnall said:

All by all, don´t forget the need of Bugfixing and Balancing after Release.  You know, if there a chance to use a bug or use unbalancing, a very large amount of Player will use it.

" You can´t make a System safe for Idiots, cause they are to creative..."

That needs most Time and is critical to the Game. Most negative Reviews based on Bugs and unbalancing. It can kill the Game.

So the most Time after release is focused on that, so no time for DLC programming :)

 

Yeah i second that mate. Smashing bugs right after release should be prio nr.1.

But please let us not forget that we have both an Alpha and Béta testing phase way before final release where, seen the amount of Alpha/Béta phase copies sold already, there is quite a lot of players around willing to help ironing out most (not all) bugs out there. Besides, perhaps i misunderstood but, seen the cost break down it says 10% of budget has also been reserved for 'balancing and polishing' thus it covers some of the expenses for bug fixing?

Concerning my previous comments it has to be noted though that a SP campaign is NOT included in the current 300K budget of course (see stretch goals). Thus the possible DLC for SP i was referring to, calls for the need of a basic SP campaign first ;) 
But since we are talking future here and a budget of 1.200K $ was targeted to be able to create a SP campaign, it could be realized assuming a minimum of additional copies to be sold around 100K pieces right after release (in that case, 4.000K$ - 1.200K$ still leaves a 2.800K$ budget (talking millions here) for bug fixing, server hosting and additional content).

Again none of us has exact numbers but we may assume this should be sufficient for a good start, bringing back the question if micro transactions should be something to be added to the game in this stage then, above other alternatives.

In any case, some say yes some say perhaps and some frown. In the end it's up to BH to decide; they know their market best and the fact they are hearing out their backers about features like these is already more than you might expect from any dev.

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I have been thinking. How about instead of skin, we get colors and materials to craft gun skin instead?

And we can save what we designed as presets, even if we don't have enough of the currency which we receive from playing matches to craft it.

And of course, we would be able to share our presets on Steam workshop for other players to be able to craft it as long as they have the required materiel, color and currency.

 

That said, yea, the devs will have to pick which color and material are allowed in the game in accordance to the WW2 theme. 

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On 15.11.2016 at 9:13 AM, y!NMastah said:

Yeah i second that mate. Smashing bugs right after release should be prio nr.1.

But please let us not forget that we have both an Alpha and Béta testing phase way before final release where, seen the amount of Alpha/Béta phase copies sold already, there is quite a lot of players around willing to help ironing out most (not all) bugs out there. Besides, perhaps i misunderstood but, seen the cost break down it says 10% of budget has also been reserved for 'balancing and polishing' thus it covers some of the expenses for bug fixing?

Concerning my previous comments it has to be noted though that a SP campaign is NOT included in the current 300K budget of course (see stretch goals). Thus the possible DLC for SP i was referring to, calls for the need of a basic SP campaign first ;) 
But since we are talking future here and a budget of 1.200K $ was targeted to be able to create a SP campaign, it could be realized assuming a minimum of additional copies to be sold around 100K pieces right after release (in that case, 4.000K$ - 1.200K$ still leaves a 2.800K$ budget (talking millions here) for bug fixing, server hosting and additional content).

Again none of us has exact numbers but we may assume this should be sufficient for a good start, bringing back the question if micro transactions should be something to be added to the game in this stage then, above other alternatives.

In any case, some say yes some say perhaps and some frown. In the end it's up to BH to decide; they know their market best and the fact they are hearing out their backers about features like these is already more than you might expect from any dev.

 

 

Well, every PC is unique. The Hardware and the installed Drivers and Software. The potential for Bugs is extreme high.  That will need time and Manpower. The Programming of a DLC needs Manpower too and can bring in more bugs. So i hope they are careful.

 

Overall we can build two different DLC modules.

   1. FREE DLC like New Maps, new skins.

   2. DLC with Cost. Like SP Campaign New Fractions and so on.

With a Model like this i can life. I do not need a SP Campaign. To generate the Story and the Missions needs much time and Manpower. The same for new Factions. The cost´s are reproducible.

 

EDIT: The only Game where i want to see much more Bugs based on Starship Troopers :)

Edited by Faithnall

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I want to start off by saying I have been following the progress of Battalion since day 1 of the Kickstarter. Although I have not been vocal I have been watching in the shadows. I am extremely excited to play this game and can not wait. But in saying that I completely agree with Joe and what the Dev team is thinking. The fact of the matter is if this game is to be a success it needs to have active players and MANY of them. Which in my opinion would come from a lower price point to buy the game. Although I believe fully in the team to deliver an amazing game down to the core. The fact of the matter is other then the cult following who have been waiting for a game like this for years, many will not feel comfortable paying triple A prices for a game from newer developers, although the game will feel it. I firmly believe regardless of the price point that the old school followers will buy it but the fact of the matter is the community needs to be constantly growing and at a lower price point I believe many others will be more willing to buy the game and then we will suck them in and the snowball effect will be in progress from word of mouth :) 

This also means that small micro-transactions are a must. Not everyone will take part of this. But if you look at the success of other games you will see the vast majority WILL. As stated by the Dev team these are strictly cosmetic and not at all game breaking or pay-to-win stuff. This will allow the Dev team to have constant flow of income to keep matchmaking servers up because regardless of the dedicated servers being there, It will not be enough especially if this game grows the way I would hope we all want it too. Nothing will be worse then people giving the game a try and not being able to connect to a server.

Also the DLC option to buy just does not work it will split the community. It needs to be the way it was before, just updates/patches to the game to fix or add anything to the game for free. This will keep the active community together as a whole. As stated above the funding the Dev team needs to sustain itself will be from the lower price point of the game ie. many I mean MANY more people will buy this game at a cheaper price point, and then the cases. Which honestly people would buy regardless but at a lower price many more will and like stated earlier there will be a much larger population to buy them.

Long story short this game has to appeal to everyone not just the old school players (which I am btw). Best case scenario will be lower price point = Much larger population willing to buy the game/try the game = much more people if they enjoy the game(which they will if this game is done correctly) wiling to buy the cases = much greater amount of flowing income to the Dev team to sustain/update the game to keep it alive for many years with a constantly  growing community. Which hopefully includes a thriving e-sport community :)

example.

100 000 @ 49.99 = 4 999 000 + case sales = ?

1 000 000 @ 15.00 = 15 000 000 + case sales= way more then the above scenario

Hope fully these numbers grow way higher but regardless cheaper price model is better. 

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Maybe its just me, but € 15,- sounds cheap.. I mean I will expect a cheap poor game when its that cheap. So I would maybe NOT buy it because I expect it to be an awefull game..

It's something psychological. 

Don't price it too low!

 

Edited by WeAsOne

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1 hour ago, Prizefightr said:

100 000 @ 49.99 = 4 999 000 + case sales = ?

1 000 000 @ 15.00 = 15 000 000 + case sales= way more then the above scenario

Hope fully these numbers grow way higher but regardless cheaper price model is better. 

Thing is though if priced low the risk if only 100k copies are sold in a year they will only recieve 1.5mill. Id rather the game be $30 for the devs to be safe but for it not to be expensive like a AAA title

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I see what you mean but 15.00 was just an example of cheaper price point. Not saying has to be that low but what I am saying is it should be low enough that people outside of the following it already has is more then willing to give it a try. The more hands this game can touch the better and that comes with having a cheaper price point. Giving it a try hopefully leads to falling in love with it like we did back in the day. As for people thinking it wont be good at a cheaper point. Id argue looking at CSGO. The cheapest fps game to buy yet It is the most active fps pc game in the world why is this because the game is good and the price point is affordable for basically anyone.

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