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Jester

[For Devs] Mapping - Kinda urgent

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I've already started creating this competitive map in the unreal engine, and I should have asked before I started.

But can I easily export it so it works with Battalion? Or will I need to start all over again?

Obviously you guys will have your own textures/models etc, so once the game is released and you release your SDK stuff, I can just easily replace them.

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I can't answer that question, but please allow me to point out something.

Mapping for a game that practically doesn't exist yet, that we don't even know its final gameplay design and that we haven't had the chance to experience ouselves once, sounds like a shot in the dark to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm also looking forward to getting my hands on this, but as of now I lack way too much information to even only block out a basic layout, not to speak of particular competitive needs.

I'd rather build some tryouts in a proof of concept-manner and just mess around with the tools and the FPS-game prototype in order to get used to the SDK. I'm not trying to discourage you here, but if there is one lesson I had to learn the hard way about mapping, then it is that you can not build competitive maps without gathering great experience playing a game competitively yourself and learning about all kinds of obvious and subtle game mechanics and how players make use of them. As far as I can tell, this does vary greatly from game to game, hence my worries here.

However, I hope Bulkhead will provide information, hints and tips to the community as soon as possible and share their vision and design approach regarding maps into more detail. Maybe they even let us have a look behind the scenes like Dice did to some extend with their community map from BF4.

Though, I'm not expecting this to happen anytime soon.

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I can't answer that question, but please allow me to point out something.

Mapping for a game that practically doesn't exist yet, that we don't even know its final gameplay design and that we haven't had the chance to experience ouselves once, sounds like a shot in the dark to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm also looking forward to getting my hands on this, but as of now I lack way too much information to even only block out a basic layout, not to speak of particular competitive needs.

[...]

OK, here I'm completely lost (yes, I've never make a map :)) but I didn't understand why you say that it would be a little bit like a shot in the dark.

In my noob "map-designer" vision I think that each map can be good. Enemy can wait you in a forest, in a city, in a... the soldiers must know more or less how the probably battlefield would be. Long range? Close quarters? Open range?

For a game I think that a map must be balanced (I didn't mean specular, but give same cover/embush/... chances) and probably this would be the hardest point of mapping (sorry if it is reductive guys), but if you will make a real fight context... well, normally the attackers (especially if they make ambush) would take a fortificate position.

A simple example: I go into a border town building and I wait that enemy approach trough the open field

To be honest in a game mode with 1 round defend - 1 other attack, an unequal map can be interesting too.

As I've said I've never create a map but it's a so incredible interesting theme that I'll understand what you mean RLpacifist.

And sorry for this off topic guys :(

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I can't answer that question, but please allow me to point out something.

Mapping for a game that practically doesn't exist yet, that we don't even know its final gameplay design and that we haven't had the chance to experience ouselves once, sounds like a shot in the dark to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm also looking forward to getting my hands on this, but as of now I lack way too much information to even only block out a basic layout, not to speak of particular competitive needs.

I'd rather build some tryouts in a proof of concept-manner and just mess around with the tools and the FPS-game prototype in order to get used to the SDK. I'm not trying to discourage you here, but if there is one lesson I had to learn the hard way about mapping, then it is that you can not build competitive maps without gathering great experience playing a game competitively yourself and learning about all kinds of obvious and subtle game mechanics and how players make use of them. As far as I can tell, this does vary greatly from game to game, hence my worries here.

However, I hope Bulkhead will provide information, hints and tips to the community as soon as possible and share their vision and design approach regarding maps into more detail. Maybe they even let us have a look behind the scenes like Dice did to some extend with their community map from BF4.

Though, I'm not expecting this to happen anytime soon.

I'm aware of that, but I'm also finding this a fun experience. If it works it works, if it doesn't it doesn't.

I'm aware each game is different, and this might be completely unsuitable for Battalion. But like I said, I'm having fun, even if it doesn't work, at least it's gave me that experience to push for more better quality maps later on.

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I'm aware of that, but I'm also finding this a fun experience. If it works it works, if it doesn't it doesn't...........at least it's gave me that experience to push for more better quality maps later on.

Exactly, Jest, that's what some of our Clan buddies are doing, it's fun and also helps them get used to the tools that they'll use in order to make maps for Bat44. I'm keen to learn this side of things too :) .

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The games looking great and I'm surprised it's draged me away from Coduo for a few mins when no other game has, but your talking a lot of old school plus, without the junk that most Coduo fans have been screaming for, the mapping side for me is essential as it's such a big part of my life.

What should I be learning to map with in case this ever happens :)

and I do understand the if, Cod players have been let down to many times by the money men,

this is not a reflection on yourselves as you have promised nothing but have wished for everything.

Here hoping we get it all :)

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@ Jester:

Yeah, it's never a waste of time as long it is fun. I'm completely with you there! Sorry, if I sounded like I wanted to hold you back. I guess it's just that I personally don't really know how SND and CTF, as the competitive side of the game, will work in detail and wouldn't be surprised if Bulkhead will come up with some 'surpises', which could have impact on how to approach maps. So, nevermind. :)

@ [NGBC]CH_SwissWolf:

Well, if you are interested you can find an article I wrote six years ago here. But be aware, it doesn't really adress the issue I was pointing at above and is written for a particular game which runs on quite an out-dated engine, which is by no means comparable to today's technology like Unreal 4. Though, it may still be helpful to get an idea.

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Hey Jester,

Love how keen you are to getting into map design for the game. I'm one of the head guys behind Battalion's level design with Joe and our lead designer David Jones.

So modding & community maps are definitely coming to Battalion. How we implement modding tools is still under internal discussion between ourselves and other third parties and will be for a while. Our aim is to work directly with Unreal to help people create maps for the game using their own assets as well as utilizing our own, directly in the engine. This will provide a much more powerful and versatile experience than any ingame editor could. Look at Fallout 4's base building for example, it's clunky and you're limited to what the assets the devs provide you. We want you to be able to use the exact same tools that we do to allow for unlimited creativity!

So whilst it's very early yet and we can't really say for sure how it'll work, you'll most likely be able to playtest your map locally as well as hosting the map on a community server for players to download and play with you. It's a while off yet but we want to reward community members for good map design, so the best and most popular maps may even make it into the full game at some point. The way Valve do their operation's for CS:GO is a great example of this. I'm actually in contact with 'FMpone', the creator of CS:GO's de_cache and de_season among others about the mapping potential of Battalion 1944. Mapcore is a great community and we'd love to get their members involved when the time is right.

Also RLpacifist has a point in that your design will probably change drastically once you get your hands on the game and understand the intricacies of Battalion's movement and weapon mechanics. Saying that, you have a year headstart on anyone else in the mapping scene ;) You'll also get to grips with UE4 etc. so it's not time wasted if you're having fun.

I'd love to see some of your work at some point! Keep us updated :)

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KingHoward":32lcl1gr]

So modding & community maps are definitely coming to Battalion.

This just makes me happy :)

Another great update from Howie :)

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So me creating this map in UE4 will allow me to put it onto a battalion server?

Or will I need to start all over again with your tools? Or better yet, add extras using your tools? As I'm wanting to use your models etc, so the players still feel like they're playing a battalion game.

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That's great news about the mapping and modding tools, Howard. Using the "Unreal 4" engine to create new content is definitely the way ahead. iWound, the Wolfenstein Enemy Territory mapper who created the superb map "Castle Attack", has also already started experimenting with "Unreal 4" tools.

There's a couple of screenshots available HERE

Others I know of are Wasti, Marshall, {WeB}*Subbie*, Teuthis, who's created some great maps such as "Teuthonia" and SSF-Sage, who created the excellent "Capuzzo Airport".

It's exciting for us to see these top class Wolf ET mappers starting to create with "Unreal 4". The next year or so should be rather interesting ;) .

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Hey Jester, It depends what your using, if you've just made things out of BSP then it will just port over, but if you've made your own assets then it's a little more tricky. UE4 is a very reference based engine.

I suggest, if you're making a level. WHENEVER you create an asset, don't structure you folder like this:

Content

-Buildings

-Props

-Trees

Structure it like this;

Content

-MY_LEVEL_FOLDER

-Buildings

-Props

-Trees

This is because UE4 can indeed migrate levels and assets, however; you can ONLY migrate assets into a new projects content folder, you cannot just copy and paste and you cannot just re-structure it that easily.

Make sure you create a folder in your own project's content folder that contains all of your level's information. That way when it comes round to porting it to Battalion, there's a much higher chance of it working.

Thanks

Joe

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Oh that's good to hear then :) At the moment it's just BSP, I will be waiting until you guys release the SDK so I can add on certain other things to make it feel like a Battalion game, rather than a custom map which has nothing in common with the rest of the other maps you guys will make (i.e. textures, lighting, vehicles, etc).

Thanks for all the help :) Appreciate it. I can finally be at rest when putting the time into making this map, without feeling it might all be a waste of time hahaha.

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